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Posts
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Gene –
1. The KING reference was outstanding.
2. The La Cosa Nostra bit is very funny. It was nice knowing you. Someone’s knocking on your door, by the way…
Norm, are we fighting?
I don’t want to fight. I’m a lover, not a fighter.
Ok – I’m not a fighter, anyway.
Tom, if doing bacteria testing is not slamming stone, I don’t know what is. Why are we talking about funding a university study if you don’t believe this is the way to go??
That’s like saying that testing the hardness of a countertop material by sliding a rough stoneware plate over it is slamming solid surface. It’s just showing the results of fair, real-life testing. I see your point, I just don’t agree with what constitutes slamming.
Mory,
Tom, Gene and others have answered your questions well. If you aren’t interested in being on the steering committe, or BOD, whatever it becomes, a simple no will be respected.
Right now, I have to badger to get support for testing. Well, I badger to get others involved would be a better account of the matter. By working on a project that will help ALL of us, including stone sellers, which I am now fabricating, I increase veiwers and membership of Fabnet. All I ever asked for this thing to be was simple, fast and small, just a way to collect money to be used for projects.
If others see a need to take it further, who am I to piss on the parade? Rather, I would walk the path with them till our needs and wants do not support staying.
Issfa started ten years ago and accomplished it’s initial needs then lost it’s way. Spend all the time you want to turn that ship around, if it gets done, I will add my money if it proves it will provide value.
Mory wrote
Tom,
Facts. The Fab Net will never be able to put the word out to the general public. Mostly becasue it can’t afford it unless we can come up with the funds to put an ad on the Super Bowl next year, then we might have a chance. The only way they could be done is with the manufacturers support. Let’s talk about International Solid Surface Fabricators Association. An organization that already exists, already has a board, but an organization that could use some new direction. As far as direction goes, let me rephrase that. Some people need to go, no matter what the cost. If all this energy was put there and ISSFA became part of the Fab Net or the Fab Net became part of ISSFA, I feel that all could be accomplished. I am not a member of ISSFA, but the ground work has been laid and the association is well known. With the right people can get the backing. As far as quartz products, we all need to realize that it is part of us and if you don’t get involved one way or another, either selling installing or fabricating, after all that is where the manufacturers are spending the advertising dollars. I wonder why.
Mory
Mory,
in a logical arguement, there is no place to offer the excuse that just because someone else is not upholding their responsibility, I should be excused from mine. If the brand’s won’t do this and issfa won’t that leaves those that want to.
Why is it so important that this association fail to be born? Why not just refuse the nomination and go about your business? No disrespect intended. When the effort to do an adhesive chart got started, I saw no need for it, but I wasn’t spending effort naysaying the effort. It stalled because it had little support, so will this if you are right.
I think you are wrong. Fabricators will support those who get things done.
Norm W. wrote
Tom, the scenario I am envisioning is this:
Let’s suppose you are on the BOD of a solid surface Only association. This association does tests to show that granite is not the ideal countertop.
Other BOD members are posting on DYI sites all over the internet, (which is what is planned by the way), and each of these posts are signed John Smith, Director, SSA.
Your customers gets ahold of this information and asks you why they should buy granite from you, when in fact you believe it is such an inferior material.
I guess it would be like buying a tool from Dave after reading a post on the internet from him, where he said the tool is a piece of crap.
Norm, I know you well enough that this is another or your thought provoking posts and you get it.
Today, I spent some time with some customers bidding their job, including all three types of top. I will quote all three types. When I got done talking, the couple got it, there are choices, some are better than others at some things and there is no one perfect counter top material. They now understand the strengths and weaknesses of the three types.
As a consumer, would you take advice on the best truck to buy from a ford salesman, a chevy salesman or one who sold all brands?
That is what Mory and others need to understand about the testing. Were they silent when Consumer Reports mangled that article?
Gentlemen, I would submit that Mory (although I don’t speak for him) is playing the part of devils advocate. I honestly believe that that is needed for a successful association to move forward.
Furthermore, have any of you taken the time to count the members as it relates to all association related posts? Not, the total posts, but out of 1000+ members, the ones who cared to weigh in on this subject.
It says a lot…
Refresh Gene wrote
Oh camon Guys you’re killing me…who cares??????Let’ encourage more groups to start organizations in Soild Surface…Like I said before eventually we could turn into football teams and the whole team funds a project from each team to REVITALIZE the DESIGN contest at the expo…I could go on and on as to why we need this…in my short time i see MFg reps visit shops and say “Need any more Samples?” Most people switch to stone because someone said it’s the greatest…For the record I do not want to spend any time trying to slam stone or stainless or concrete or even laminate…I just want to show off the non-porous,FDA,NSF design flexibility of Solid Surface…I don’t know why we even have to fight…but we Soild Surfacers need to let the public know what we do and how we do it along with a nice set of Cherry cabinets to match…that is our job…If Stoners want to talk about us let em, I’d rather be talked about then doing the talking…Second of all if nobody wants to join “THIS thing of ours” then don’t, but please don’t throw bricks at us..maybe we are wrong and full of pis and vineagar but let us be wrong and youse guys at least can’t say we didn’t try!!! let’s be friends and I knew nominating people puts people on the spot,but if someone stands for that position they are most likely interested and available. A KING once said “Can’t we all just get along???????????
Gene,
Lenny came up with an idea that could make illrelevant and useless both of the studies that proclaim granite can be easily sanitized. We will be pursuing it soon. Once and for all, the idea that vinegar is a good sanitizing solution may be not only wrong, but dangerous for homeowners. Would you prefer to be able to sell granite and be able to give the customer accurate infromation on cleaning? Or would you prefer that they get useless info just so that they don’t need to seal as often and make granite seem less maintance than it is?
That said, I agree with the rest of your post. People need to lead, follow or get the hell out of the way.
FEDSAWDAVE wrote
Yeah, I got that after the fact Norm…it’s been a long day. The 3″ soft pad is in the mail.
Dave, is that sealer on the way? Got a top in and it needs protection.
Thanks,
AL.
FEDSAWDAVE wrote
Gentlemen, I would submit that Mory (although I don’t speak for him) is playing the part of devils advocate. I honestly believe that that is needed for a successful association to move forward.
Furthermore, have any of you taken the time to count the members as it relates to all association related posts? Not, the total posts, but out of 1000+ members, the ones who cared to weigh in on this subject.
It says a lot…
Dave,
Christina read something in the Wall Street Journal the other day. I think Andy will back up the info. It said that only one percent of members on a forum or wikipedia type site will post content, 99 percent will not.
My count shows 12 to 13 pro SSA and seven or less against the idea.
That says a lot as well.
Al, I hope you’re not counting me as an “against” as I don’t necessarily think that having some concerns makes one a “nasayer.” I would, conversely, have to agree that questioning the motives and practices of any undertaking such as this should be, ultimately, considered constructive collaberation to mitigate avoidable errors.
In that spirit, it seems like as a good a time as any to point out that the moniker “SSA” that has been loosely adopted to represent the new association may need to be re-thought. I am probably not the only one who noticed, but it IS basically “@ss backwards”. We wouldn’t want the “stoners” to get a hold of that…………
Al, I’m not talking pro or against. I’m talking out of 1013 members, those that even cared to post about the subject.
The Wall Street Journal is for sale…nuff said.
Hi All,
I hope that my submissions to these threads are not being taken in the wrong light. I do support the idea of an organization to support SS and it’s fabricators. Otherwise I would not have accepted a nomination to be part of a temporary board. I just feel we need to move forward with our eyes open and with some level of caution. We also need a well defined initial direction for the organization. It’s too easy to get too many fires lit at one time and loose focus. The last two days of posts are a good indication of how easy this is to do.
I don’t think that we can or should try to steer people away from stone by force. We need to sell the merits of SS. Selling with a positive focus is easier and better accepted by the client than a negative approach. If showing the client or potential client the results of a study that favours SS over Granite and the client moves to SS thats great. If the client still wants stone, thats OK too. There’s nothing wrong with selling them stone if they want it after your best efforts for SS are put forward. We don’t have to be Stone or SS. We can and probably should be both. No one product fits all people or circumstances. If we box ourselves into one product we will loose in the long run.
The initial directions and methods of operation are going to be difficult to boil down on this forum. It’s the nature of boards to generate discussion and dissention. It will take time to get concenus from even 12 or 14 people. But that’s what it’s all about. Lets not try to force people into this. Lets talk them into it by showing how it can help them improve their business. Putting forth objections to various aspects of the organization in it’s inception is part of what it takes to blend and modify ideas into something that works for the whole. Nobody should get upset if their idea is not seen as perfect. Every idea needs to have the rough edges smoothed to a greater or lesser degree. We also have to play the political game whether we like it or not. It’s life.
Paul
Gordon, I have you on the go side. This is the spot to discuss the concerns and I am fine with that.
I say the backassward thing, but can’t think of a good replacement. By the way, I am a @ss man at heart.
Sorry, hair doesn’t do a thing for me.You guys keep this thing from going @ssbackward by pitching in on the bylaw threads. Gene needs suggestions, I haven’t been able to convince him that he needs to just write em and start the debate.
So if everyone is just acting as devil’s advocate, how about voting for the name to show good intentions?
Wouldn’t that separate the naysayers from the constructive criticism?
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