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Posts
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i’ve got a few questions. Why an association? Why do you feel we need an association? How many active members are there really? What do you have to offer? What do you have to offer that ISSFA doesn’t have? Better yet, what do you have to offer that the Geeks site doesn’t have? The reason I quit ISSFA what that I saw no value for my money. So, what value will the Fab Net have? I am not interested in joining another good old boys club. As far as testing, that is a very large pissing match. When it comes to solid surface, why aren’t the manufacturers putting the word out? What is Dupont doing? Where are they spending all of their advertising dollars? Looking for answers.
Mory
Mory,
I’m supporting an association that exists to put out the word on solid surface, and to be able to respond with facts to other’s claims that work against our industry. You are correct that testing (results) tend to be a pissing match. That’s the way it is, and I want to have the biggest stream, with the greatest pressure out there. I’m talking a teenager after a long night of many beers, here. Gordon will be my guide.
Tom,
Your rhetoric is engaging, but the logic really sucks. To continue the analogy: when everyone is through pissing (and it will eventually collapse under its own weight), all you have left is a big messy puddle — that someone else will have to clean up.
Russ
Tom,
Facts. The Fab Net will never be able to put the word out to the general public. Mostly becasue it can’t afford it unless we can come up with the funds to put an ad on the Super Bowl next year, then we might have a chance. The only way they could be done is with the manufacturers support. Let’s talk about International Solid Surface Fabricators Association. An organization that already exists, already has a board, but an organization that could use some new direction. As far as direction goes, let me rephrase that. Some people need to go, no matter what the cost. If all this energy was put there and ISSFA became part of the Fab Net or the Fab Net became part of ISSFA, I feel that all could be accomplished. I am not a member of ISSFA, but the ground work has been laid and the association is well known. With the right people can get the backing. As far as quartz products, we all need to realize that it is part of us and if you don’t get involved one way or another, either selling installing or fabricating, after all that is where the manufacturers are spending the advertising dollars. I wonder why.
Mory
Russ,
Yup, but then some other butt-munch is gonna throw another kegger.
The stone industry is putting out this stuff, whether we respond to it or not. I say we respond.
To do otherwise will put us – well, pretty much where we are now.
I’m happier cleaning up my own mess, rather than someone else’s. Heck, I may make enough profit to hire a cleaning agency.
First of all, “Gordon will be my guide.” ??
What the h*ll does THAT mean?!!Just because I still have two kegs and taps in my garage doesn’t mean I run yellow river raft tours, my friend.
Secondly, I am really glad that Mory started this thread. I do not mean ANY disrespect for Al, Norm, or any of the guys that are into this (o.k. maybe just a little for Tom) but, what REALLY is the point of it all? All the BOD stuff and by-laws…. to specifically accomplish what? The main reason I love the FabNet is because it has none of that. No fees, not many rules, no real agenda, just comaraderie, good times and free advice. It seems like less is really more here, doesn’t it?
Don’t get me wrong. If there is a worthy mission to be accomplished by donations, fees, meetings, or associations then I am in. However, if the point is to scream at the wind (i.e. fight the onslaught of natural and e-stone), then couldn’t we be spending our time and money more wisely elsewhere? Mory is right. That is a manufacturer’s battle, not ours.
We might want to consider too, that we (the SS people) are not the only folks in this industry. One of the problems with a pissing contest is that we may find that we are all pissing into somebody else’s pool. That’s a little tougher to clean up.
Perhaps just a network within which we can sub-out fab or install (or repair) work to each other would be more effective?
If I were in Mory’s shoes right now I wouldn’t support a solid surface only association either. I mean who in thier right mind would spend that kind of money to get tooled up to fabricate granite, and then support an association that is going to slam it.
Mory and Gordon,
It may surprise you to know that I am more on your side than the other.
I don’t see this association as anything more than an umbrella for projects that would probably be undertaken by FabNetters in general anyway. Jon is still finding the avenues for driving home good, solid info about solid surface. Al has been testing materials long before this was brought into focus. I have been working on different ad campaigns for quite awhile. We do not need the association, except as a repository and as an entity to present what we have found with confidence.
The phenomenon of FabNet might actually give us the cache’ we need, but an association will put a stamp of legitimacy that a forum cannot.
I differ with some of the others in that I want this to be a thin, almost transparent veneer. It should only serve what we would otherwise do anyway, but it will give some sense of mission to our goals. It might help us get some organization for all the different things we are doing. It would likely give a push by allowing timetables, so the lazy amongst us (well, ok, me) has a bit more incentive to actually finish what is started.
As for the manufacturers, sorry guys, that ain’t gonna happen. I ask not for their support, but I would ask for their cooperation. Mention us. Point to our projects pages, slip us some testing materials, or just go away without trying to gum up the whole works.
I see its success in its lightness. In its ability to stay out of the way until it’s time.
I don’t think we’ll not accomplish anything without it, but I do see us having more legitimacy with it.
Low key.
Norm,
I sell granite. I sell estone. I won’t let the fact that I sell solid surface deter me from joining up with a stone association, if I see an advantage to do so.
I don’t see how they are mutually exclusive.
Tom, the scenario I am envisioning is this:
Let’s suppose you are on the BOD of a solid surface Only association. This association does tests to show that granite is not the ideal countertop.
Other BOD members are posting on DYI sites all over the internet, (which is what is planned by the way), and each of these posts are signed John Smith, Director, SSA.
Your customers gets ahold of this information and asks you why they should buy granite from you, when in fact you believe it is such an inferior material.
I guess it would be like buying a tool from Dave after reading a post on the internet from him, where he said the tool is a piece of crap.
Oh camon Guys you’re killing me…who cares??????Let’ encourage more groups to start organizations in Soild Surface…Like I said before eventually we could turn into football teams and the whole team funds a project from each team to REVITALIZE the DESIGN contest at the expo…I could go on and on as to why we need this…in my short time i see MFg reps visit shops and say “Need any more Samples?” Most people switch to stone because someone said it’s the greatest…For the record I do not want to spend any time trying to slam stone or stainless or concrete or even laminate…I just want to show off the non-porous,FDA,NSF design flexibility of Solid Surface…I don’t know why we even have to fight…but we Soild Surfacers need to let the public know what we do and how we do it along with a nice set of Cherry cabinets to match…that is our job…If Stoners want to talk about us let em, I’d rather be talked about then doing the talking…Second of all if nobody wants to join “THIS thing of ours” then don’t, but please don’t throw bricks at us..maybe we are wrong and full of pis and vineagar but let us be wrong and youse guys at least can’t say we didn’t try!!! let’s be friends and I knew nominating people puts people on the spot,but if someone stands for that position they are most likely interested and available. A KING once said “Can’t we all just get along???????????
Norm,
In my case, I’ve already told my customer that granite may not be the ideal material for them. If, after I have properly informed the customer, she still settles on granite (which, in rare circumstances, may be the best choice for them), then I simply say that we’ve been down that road, and settled where we are.
I guess I’m not sure why we have to be anti-stone, if we’re pro-solid surface. If a customer has been told of the ups and downs of all of her choices, then the right material for her is whatever she ended up deciding on. There are many good reasons for customers to want estone over solid surface. I don’t want to change that, it wouldn’t be honest. I don’t do that now.
Norm, what tool did I say was a piece of crap??
And since I sell to both sides of the aisle, stone & Solid Surface, then I would be out as it relates to this association being that I would not have an objective opinion or, it would not be seen as one.
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