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Posts
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Hello fabnetters!!! what’s up with all youse guys constantly putting up roadblocks in those of us who want an association? Does it affect you in any way? Are we somhow threatening you? I’m into Solid Surface Only and when it dies my business dies,I’m not saying that out of pity either. I been in Solid Surface for 3years now and am passionate as hell about it. I went to a show 3 years ago to a workshop “Start up a SS shop”…I got so enthusiastic i did and am making awesome money doing so, i’m an ex laminator woodworker and exhibit builder, i left all that because of the Solid surface movement.
I know it’s values in the healthcare and food industry..i now know it’s value in the “GREEN” industry. I just am getting sick and tired of my curiosity to open the other posts and see constant negativity…what’s going on people? who care what we are doing? if the countertop industry was a radio, just change the station if you don’t like our new radio station…If i ever get interested in GRANITE, i’ll tune into your radio and ask questions and show support…We Solid Surfacers have nothing..I got my right to speak because all of youse been in this thin a long time i got in when there is all this fighting about Stone and SS….Well since i been in The expo turned into a stone fest with a couple of sample box vendors, ISSFA added Quartz to(Why don’t they change to ISSQFA?)I’ve seen my favorite magazine be overcome Waterjets,grinders and men in rubber boots walking in shops,I seen websites that have SS in the name show pictures of Granite kitchens on ththe home page ,I’ve seen vendors all do this as well, that is fine…All we want is to have something for just solid surface PERIOD..I’m forty years old and can’t afford granite equipment anyway, so please all you guys are my heroes who gave me my start in Solid surface,please don’t tell me in other words i’m wrong for wanting to be a part of a SOLID SURFACE ONLY ASSOCIATION. The Stone guys got their own associations magazines, shows etc…they don’t water it down, We as business owners can, heck sell laminate if you have to…but Associations should represent one thing. ISSFA celebrates 10 years,then they add quartz assuming to the unknown member they have 10 years with that..oops..I not angry just care about friends like you who are wasting time posting negativity, i would request your encouragement or button up…love youse guysHey Gene! Well the good news you live in a free country so you can do whatever you want. From reading all of the post regarding this matter I don’t see negativity rather why not just use what is already in place? What you guys have been talking about for the few weeks is what some of us have been trying to do for a few years now. It’s a rough road. Not because of ISSFA but rather it’s not as easy as it would sound.
Magazines aren’t interested in SS. They will become more interested when the consumers demand information. That’s why you need to start locally. I like the bacteria test Why not start with local showrooms in each area and just let them know what has been found? Little by little the tide can turn.
I as well see no negativity. Simply constructive criticism.
If you want an association of all things solid surface and solid surface alone, how many of us have you already cut out of the loop being that we are associated with both sides of the aisle? I would submit many.
Note my avatar. That aint for solid surface!
Dave,
The point is that stoneadvice.com is for stone questions, issfa is for solid surface and quartz and fabnet is for all types. SSA would be just for solid surface. Anyone who is in the trade can join, I sell and fabricate granite now, but see no problem with being involved with a solid surface only groupl
Hey guys i’m sorry if i made youse feel offendeD BY SAYING THE negativity…i JUST WAS HOPING TO HEAR ENCOURAGEMENT, not that we would be cutting out or forming a militant organization against stone…we are not saying thaT SHOPS SHOULD BE only one material..but this organization should, i still will walk into fed saw no matter what else he sells, he suports Solid Surface and stone, what’s the big deal…but all i’m looking for is an association where Solid Surface is the only topic which is what binds us together…for example I can’t really communicate with a stone fabricator, they think i’m nuts when i say just router the edge of the top…we have nothin in common…I need to find solid surface only guys..not guys who USED TO do Solid surface…by the way..i will stay with ISSFA<GEEKS<FABNET,,I made my money for all the education off joinig allthose entities…I love youse all…but please again I'm not against STONE,concrete,laminate..I just want to do SS for now….Stop throwing Stones ha-ha-ha
There’s no offense taken Gene. None what so ever. Just opinion…right, wrong indifferant, just opinion.
No offense to anyone. I think Jon said it best. I talk to alot of people. People who still just fab solid surface and people whom fab other products as well. ISSFA is made up of both, the fab net is made up of both. Starting another place for me to chase after on the internet just to keep up with what’s new; the thougt is gives me a headache. Not because it’s a bad idea, just because I don’t have enough hours in the day already. Does that make sense. Why can’t we just work together to improve what is already in available? I not telling anyone what to do; just asking??
Kurt
I don’t think anyone was putting up a roadblock, I saw it as giving feedback so you could evaluate your support. Al is using a mass-mailing marketing figure of 1% returns, which isn’t the same figure you’ll get when you ask people to sign up and pay dues or be involved in a group. How much do you expect this granite study to cost?
Len,
If I remember right, one percent is what Andy told me that is expected on forums like this, plus, the Wall Street Journal gave the same statistic. It had nothing at all to do with mass mailing. The figure is the percentage of those who visit a website or forum and contribute content.
Spin it anyway you want, but there is a lot of negativity on this matter, as well as completely off base views of what SSA will and will not do. For instance, Kurt mentioned another place to keep track of, not so, there will be no forum as long as we can meet here on Fabnet. No need for one, just a simple website with links here, once we get permission. Really just a site in case someone googles the name, or it might pop up in a google solid surface search. There will be some content, shared with links of course, or posted here with links taking you from there to Fabnet.
Another faslehood is that we are doing the granite study alone, which again is completely wrong. Our purpose is to help raise the money for that purpose, and have either Fabnet or the new section, CMS , actually start the study. I haven’t spoken with Andy about this, but I think we should ask the stainless steel group, MIA, Plastic Laminate, Quartz and any other material manufactures if they would be interested in sponsoring their material in the test.
Will they help? I doubt it, but it would send a message to consumers if they don’t.
Just my opinion, I could be wrong…..
Kurt wrote
No offense to anyone. I think Jon said it best. I talk to alot of people. People who still just fab solid surface and people whom fab other products as well. ISSFA is made up of both, the fab net is made up of both. Starting another place for me to chase after on the internet just to keep up with what’s new; the thougt is gives me a headache. Not because it’s a bad idea, just because I don’t have enough hours in the day already. Does that make sense. Why can’t we just work together to improve what is already in available? I not telling anyone what to do; just asking??
Kurt
Kurt,
That is a good question, why can’t we all work together with what we already have.
From the begining, Issfa bashing was discouraged on Fabnet, while discussing the issues was allowed, which is one of the reasons that Fabnet grew so fast, no censoring posts. On another site, Lenny asked a great question that was not answered, about Joe’s questions that went unanswered. Now, I am on record supporting what was done. No other way to handle the situation, but what lead up to the unpleasantness was a couple of unaswered questions. What ever lead up to the situation, I deplored the attack on Jon.
This is the reason for Andy’s sucess, not muzzling members on controversial subjects. While I visit Len’s forum to keep up, let’s face it, it isn’t burning up with visitors because the crowd prefers to come here. Same thing on Issfa BB, a few members keeping the public section from being barren.
The preceding paragraphs lead up to this, some things are best not done directly onFabnet, things that are better kept private. Like the original Consumer Report letter, which was started on Google shareware so people could modify the letter and add content. The same method started the ball rolling on the Warranty Chart, which was started on Google, with Andy doing the bulk of the work after the project stalled from lack of volunteers. Shane and I got three or four done, but when I posted here on Fabnet for someone to look over the Corian info. we got zero help.
Issfa costs way too much, has little to offer, as Amir put so well the other day in another post. I can see where shops that need new people trained, or members sitting on the board still get some benefit. I have benefited greatly from being active on Fabnet, so I can imagine the pull you have if you are a board member. Oxley faxed me some stuff about joining Issfa last october when I was interested in joining, reading it, I could find no real benifit except maybe attending the show.
Remember that famous thread, I think it was over 4,000 views, the one that Vendetta joined in on? A simple discussion of value drew so much controversy, even resulted in an intrusion on Andy’s and Mory’s computers, if I remember right.
So if former Issfa members want to help the good guys at Issfa turn it around, they have to pay $450.00, or post here and take the heat for doing so. Luckily for you issfa guys, you can post negative things about forming an association, but can you personally guarantee me the same right over at the Issfa public section? Can I go over there and post an invite to join SSA? Or post why I didn’t join Issfa?
The only reason that an association came up was because we had received $800.00 in pledges toward the bacteria testing. I mentioned starting a bank account, and the conensus was that it shouldn’t be done privately. I countered with a PayPal acount for storing and dispersing the funds, some objected, as is there right. The next few days, the complaining started again, why is Solid Surface being abused in the media and why isn’t anyone standing up for it.
Look at every project that I was involved in here to date. It all starts with a group of people complaining about something, bemoaning the fact that nothing is being done about it. Complaints about Consumer Reports, well it got done, didn’t it? Something that I can send you an email in which Oxley told me that nothing could be done about. Less than one percent of Fabnet joined in, got our heads together and let them know that there was a group of people that could get them better info. A dialoge was started, one that will result in better info for consumers and better market share for solid surface.
Warranty chart, got done. Basic research on bacteria and countertop surfaces got done to enable us to be able to ask relevant questions Money pledges got started, and only remain uncollected because the consensus was that we needed a group to watch over the funds and provide legitimacy to raise more. One project remains unfinished, the universal fabricator manual, stalled because of lack of time, with maybe 80% of it done. Bacteria study became more important, so while I get time to work on it every week, I can’t spend much more time and still have a personal life. Which leads to the most important reason to form a new association.
I need help, I asked for help, posted a list of stuff that needs doing that resulted in three or four joining in, but not enough to get the job done. Here at Fabnet, about one percent of the members have helped on projects, we need to expand that base if we want to continue working toward our goals. The idea was put forth that some would contribute cash when they had no time, so we needed dues paid, donations , which required a solid group, one with rules, one that was accountable.
Issfa is way too expensive, I know, I have already said that. If the cash was going toward usefull projects, it would be different, in fact, it goes to pay useless overhead, a handsome salary to one in particular, while the original group of employes were sacked so Oxley’s family and croneys could be hired. Or so I was told by multiple sources. No disrespect to you intended, everybody says you are one of the good guys trying to turn things around, but you guys depend on selling out to the high bidder so you can pay the bills, or at least try to stem the hemmorage of cash. What was it, a half million deficit last year, made up by going into savings from selling the show?
What is needed is a small, quick, volunteer group, internet based so it is cheap to run, with almost all money going toward worthwhile projects. A place that you pay a few bucks dues, and join in spreading the word about solid surfaces great qualities for counter tops and so much more. Fabnet is great, and I do a lot of things to support it, but it is a free ride for all. An association can and will collect some cash for projects as well as gathering like minded people in a place where things get done, not just talked about. Just like Fabnet, but we can raise money to help.
Also, were can people gather to fight to get issfa turned around? Are you going to start a section or thread asking for allies to back a take over? While not my idea of the best use of time and money, if enough interested people approached us, we would make a place for them, a long as they supported the other projects with dues.
Have I mentioned that Issfa is too expensive? I couldn’t afford to join when I got started, needed the help, but there is was. My understanding, correct me if I am wrong, but did Oxley pull public access to the BB because of Joe? The many, including newcomers to the trade were punished because he didn’t like criticizm from one man? So these newcomers started hacking out work, lowering prices because they didn’t know anyone to ask about the going rates, butchering jobs because they didn’t have the experience, all for the sake on one man, Edit……
Rambling, but in there somewhere you might understand why we need a way to raise support and gather interested people to get some things done. This is NO different than the bacteria study, people coming together, sharing expenses, working as a group to get work done and published that many say has been done and is being sat on by the brands to protect future marketing opportunites. It needs done now. I agree with Russ Lee and others, buying a top is a emotional thing for women, but i can help add an emotion, fear and doubt about some choices and safety and security about others.
Mory,
You did know that if you close your eyes and use your fingertips, you can read the screen like braille.
Hah, I have the advantage, sir. Like a pony in a pile of horse dung. It has to be in there somewhere. Or like dropping that table saw nut down the cleanout, ever had to dig for one?
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