[Andy Graves]

Maybe I am seeing things in the pictures you posted, but was there still a faint discoloration where the drain board was located?

Just an idea, why don’t you cut in a drain board to solve the issue? Would be pretty straight forward with EOS being so thick.

[Steve Mehan]

No Andy your eyes are just fine. When I went there I wasnt planning on sanding it out just then. I was installing some counters in another unit and stopped by to look at this one. When I saw it I was pissed, and decided to sand it out then to just get it over with. I didnt spend as much time as I needed to be honest, but she continued to stop me during the process and ask how long is it gonna take and that she just had her apartment cleaned the day before and on and on. So after and hour it looked a lot better then it did when I started, she was thrilled and said she hoped to not see me again, I laughed and said likewise.

[Un-Authorized]

Posted By Andy Graves on 14 Mar 2011 10:45 PM
This issue needs to be covered under the EOS warranty. Kind of embarrassing for the solid surface industry.

Andy:

You have nailed it, my friend.

This is a bigger issue than one job and one manufacturer. When EOS started, they had the legacy of the solid surface industry built for them by others. They have an obigation, not only to one fabricator on one job, but to all of us who have busted our a$$es to make this industry what it is. We didn’t do it by manufacturing and installing products that turned white at the first drop of water, nor by weasel-wording our way out of our responsibilities and warranites.

Imagine you’re a granite salesman and some potential customers are debating between solid surface and granite. EOS has just handed you a sale on a silver platter. Were I that salesman, I would invite my potential customers to visit this site and see for themselves the performance of “solid surface” and the nonexistent customer support from the manufacturer.

C’mon Evan, time to eat one. Not for me or for Steve, but for all the people who have worked so hard and so long building solid surface’s reputation. It’s the least you can do for those that have done so much for you.

Joe

P.S.:
I emailed a link to this thread to Mr. Bob Baxter, EOS National Sales Manager, and asked him to forward it to Evan K.

[Steve Mehan]

Posted By Kowboy on 15 Mar 2011 09:56 PM

Posted By Andy Graves on 14 Mar 2011 10:45 PM
This issue needs to be covered under the EOS warranty. Kind of embarrassing for the solid surface industry.

Andy:

You have nailed it, my friend.

This is a bigger issue than one job and one manufacturer. When EOS started, they had the legacy of the solid surface industry built for them by others. They have an obigation, not only to one fabricator on one job, but to all of us who have busted our a$$es to make this industry what it is. We didn’t do it by manufacturing and installing products that turned white at the first drop of water, nor by weasel-wording our way out of our responsibilities and warranites.

Imagine you’re a granite salesman and some potential customers are debating between solid surface and granite. EOS has just handed you a sale on a silver platter. Were I that salesman, I would invite my potential customers to visit this site and see for themselves the performance of “solid surface” and the nonexistent customer support from the manufacturer.

C’mon Evan, time to eat one. Not for me or for Steve, but for all the people who have worked so hard and so long building solid surface’s reputation. It’s the least you can do for those that have done so much for you.

Joe

P.S.:
I emailed a link to this thread to Mr. Bob Baxter, EOS National Sales Manager, and asked him to forward it to Evan K.

Joe, This thread is meant to be helpful and informative. I’ve posted this issue to try and find out why this has happened. It may be the case that when the conditions are just right it could happen to other brands and materials as well. I’m trying to get more information.

At no point did I say this happened at the first drop of water. That is an example of your exaggeration.

In defence of the product, I was able to sand off the discoloration. This is one of the many reasons the costomer chose solid surface over other products. I see this as a positive. The previous countertop was a laminate that had the same discoloartion issues and could not be cleaned and forget about sanding it.

Your comment “time to eat one”. Is immature. The last thing the solid surface industry needs is an arrogant know-it-all, let alone one that is also rude.

Joe, I have ready many of your comments to posts of others over the years and at times your very negative. It doent help anyone. This is one of those times.

Steve

[John Christensen]

Posted By Steve Mehan on 16 Mar 2011 03:41 AM

Posted By Kowboy on 15 Mar 2011 09:56 PM

Posted By Andy Graves on 14 Mar 2011 10:45 PM
This issue needs to be covered under the EOS warranty. Kind of embarrassing for the solid surface industry.

Andy:

You have nailed it, my friend.

This is a bigger issue than one job and one manufacturer. When EOS started, they had the legacy of the solid surface industry built for them by others. They have an obigation, not only to one fabricator on one job, but to all of us who have busted our a$$es to make this industry what it is. We didn’t do it by manufacturing and installing products that turned white at the first drop of water, nor by weasel-wording our way out of our responsibilities and warranites.

Imagine you’re a granite salesman and some potential customers are debating between solid surface and granite. EOS has just handed you a sale on a silver platter. Were I that salesman, I would invite my potential customers to visit this site and see for themselves the performance of “solid surface” and the nonexistent customer support from the manufacturer.

C’mon Evan, time to eat one. Not for me or for Steve, but for all the people who have worked so hard and so long building solid surface’s reputation. It’s the least you can do for those that have done so much for you.

Joe

P.S.:
I emailed a link to this thread to Mr. Bob Baxter, EOS National Sales Manager, and asked him to forward it to Evan K.

Joe, This thread is meant to be helpful and informative. I’ve posted this issue to try and find out why this has happened. It may be the case that when the conditions are just right it could happen to other brands and materials as well. I’m trying to get more information.

At no point did I say this happened at the first drop of water. That is an example of your exaggeration.

In defence of the product, I was able to sand off the discoloration. This is one of the many reasons the costomer chose solid surface over other products. I see this as a positive. The previous countertop was a laminate that had the same discoloartion issues and could not be cleaned and forget about sanding it.

Your comment “time to eat one”. Is immature. The last thing the solid surface industry needs is an arrogant know-it-all, let alone one that is also rude.

Joe, I have ready many of your comments to posts of others over the years and at times your very negative. It doent help anyone. This is one of those times.

Steve

Joe:
I gotta agree with Steve, here.  For a person who will publicly ridicule a person for not sticking to the facts in an argument, you stepped way out of your circle here.

In Steve’s initial post he writes: “this is caused by trapping water between the drain tray and the countertop and not allowing the area to dry or from not drying the area after use”.

In a follow up post he also said:  “I will also say that EOS has told me they would treat this as a warrenty issue.”

Joe, using the phrase  “Weasel-wording our way out of our responsabilities and warranties”.  Is truly an embelishment on your part, you should know better and act wiser.

I actually enjoy reading some of your rebuttals.  However, while you claim to be just poinging out the facts.  Many of your resposes are just mean spirited and petty.  Joe, You clearly have a good grasp on the English language and are intelligent enough to put it to better use.
 
Now back to Steves original question.

“Has anyone had any discoloration like this that could have been caused from constant contact with water?”

Johnny C

[Gordon Shell]

First off, let me thank those who have stepped up in my absense to point out Joe’s silly comments, secondly I want to thank Steve for his work in researching the issue and repairing the issues quickly to satisfy the end consumer.
I am the International manager and warranty manager for EOS Surfaces and this is the first I have heard of this case. Mr. Trinder did not find it neccessary to bring me into the mix because it was being handled without my assistance.
At no point did ANYONE at EOS Surfaces LLC tell Steve that he would not be taken care of, if I am wrong then we will let Steve correct me.
To answer Steve’s question, “has anyone else seen this issue?” the answer is yes, I have seen this issue in multiple solid surfaces including my own “EOS”, it is not common but can occur and in most cases can be sanded out quickly.
I think Lenny did a fine job explaining some of the causes.
For anyone to speculate on the ingredients of EOS is a bit foolish, and we will not even respond to their comments.
I am publically posting my Cell Phone number 616-293-6170 for all of you to use if you have a warranty or tech question, on either EOS or GEOS, I have been very busy with both products lately so keeping up on these posts is very difficult.
In the future I would recommend that if anyone has a warranty or even a non-warranty issue with a product that you contact the MFG first before posting on a public site, if the MFG responds in a positive manner then make sure you express that in your post so nobody “assumes” that this is a negative post about the MFG.

Steve has done nothing negative here, he just asked a simple question and his post was highjacked by creative writers that like to embelish.
We thank Steve for being a return customer at EOS and we hope to continue to do business with him and the other members of this forum.

Anyone can feel free to call or write me anytime concerning this matter:
Gordon Shell
Product, Distributor, Technical Manager
EOS Surfaces LLC
http://www.eos-surfaces.com
616-293-6170
Be sure to check out our latest Sustainable Surface GEOS!

[Andy Graves]

I went back over the posts and I have made some assumptions that may be incorrect. I assumed this was just part of EOS and all EOS countertops would react the same, under the same conditions.

Apparently, after reading Gordon’s post, this is not the case and has only happened a few times. Problem is a know issue and is being handled as a warranty claim. Good for EOS.

All products have issues. I could list them here but I will spare you. It is not if a manufacturer experiences issues, it is how they solve them and how the treat their customers. Looks like EOS, Gordon, Evan and Ken have all stepped up to the plate to address the issue.

Thanks for posting Steve and Gordon. I actually learned a lot from the pictures and information posted

[Steve Mehan]

To make this issue clear for all who have been following and want to know what may be certain conditions that are causing this discoloration. The discoloration I have experienced has happend to one customer. The countertop was installed during the Fall of 2008. It was installed in a senior living apartment complex. The resident is an elderly women. It was around February of 2010 when I got the first call of a white spot under a soap dispensor. I explained in detail all of what occured in the begining of this thread. Fast forward a year, again the same countertop with the same elderly women. This time a much larger white spot only it’s under the dish drainer. I ask if shes been cautious about drying under the dish drainer, and explained what I thought was the issue with the soap dispensor, how it was always wet under it, it’s gonna be that same under the dish drainer. She explains how she keeps a fabric place mate under it to protect the countertop. Its soaked and keep in mind its been there a year. I will add that I have installed countertops in over 70 units in this same complex, all EOS and all the same color and this is the only one that I am aware of that this is happening to. I’m there a few times a month and it’s been 2 1/2 years. I speak with housekeeping and ask if they have seen any of the discoloration in any other units. They say they havent.

I’ve done some experimentation during the course of the last year and was able to replicate the discoloration on a piece of EOS, all of which I posted. I have also both spoken to and been in contact by email with Ken Trinder, and he has always been very helpful explaining what the issue probable is and that I will be able to sand off the discoloration. At NO time did he ever say that I was on my own.

It wasnt until the second call that I decided to expierament with other brands and submerge 1/2 of the sample in a pail of water that I took from the apartment complex. I would check each sample every day and for the first few weeks it looked like no effect was taking place. Not until about a month could I see the effect. This is when I posted the current pictures of the spot under the drain board. Lenny was the first one that could explain what was happening and why it happens so that I could understand it better, and I certainly appreciate his knowledge and interest in what i was trying to find out.

I asked if anyone had ever had this happen to them. When no one posted they had. I’m starting to think that the conditions have to be just right for this to occur. Keep in mind under normal everyday use how often a countertop gets wet and for how long. There most likely not submerged in water for a month at a time with out ever drying or being wiped down.

The pictures I’m posting are of a few samples I took from the showroom. All did show some effects although it is a bit difficult to see in the photos.

Again it seams as though this is extreamly rare that this would happen under normal everyday use, and I seem to recall someone posting that solid surface was never meant to be submerged. However being solid surface what I have found is that it can be restored. What a great selling point for a product. I’d be more then happy to show a potential customer a before and after picture.

Steve

[John Christensen]

Steve:
Thanks for your diligence and sharing what you discovered.  Certainly vdery interesting. 

I saw somewhere an article about a fountain that Tom Pinske made out of Corian.  I wonder how that is standing up. 

Johnny C

[Un-Authorized]

All:

I missed Steve’s admission that EOS agreed to handle this as a warranty issue, even the first time I reread for it. That was sloppy and inexcuseable on my part and readers deserve better. For that I apologize.

I have never been happier to be wrong in discovering that EOS is standing up for Steve. That was my whole point in agreeing with Andy that this should be covered as a warranty issue.

My previous response was correct however, in that EOS literature does not advise customers to remove standing water from countertops. The “granite” sink manufacturers literature advise customers to wipe sinks after every use.
Maybe EOS will consider adding this in the section warning about heat.

Perhaps a coat of Countertop Magic would add extra water protection for this particular elderly customer to avoid this in the future. It does make water bead beautifully.

I think we’ve all learned from this thread, I know I sure have. That’s what the Fabnet is all about.

Sincerely,

Joe

[Gordon Shell]

Posted By Steve Mehan on 16 Mar 2011 06:23 PM

To make this issue clear for all who have been following and want to know what may be certain conditions that are causing this discoloration. The discoloration I have experienced has happend to one customer. The countertop was installed during the Fall of 2008. It was installed in a senior living apartment complex. The resident is an elderly women. It was around February of 2010 when I got the first call of a white spot under a soap dispensor. I explained in detail all of what occured in the begining of this thread. Fast forward a year, again the same countertop with the same elderly women. This time a much larger white spot only it’s under the dish drainer. I ask if shes been cautious about drying under the dish drainer, and explained what I thought was the issue with the soap dispensor, how it was always wet under it, it’s gonna be that same under the dish drainer. She explains how she keeps a fabric place mate under it to protect the countertop. Its soaked and keep in mind its been there a year. I will add that I have installed countertops in over 70 units in this same complex, all EOS and all the same color and this is the only one that I am aware of that this is happening to. I’m there a few times a month and it’s been 2 1/2 years. I speak with housekeeping and ask if they have seen any of the discoloration in any other units. They say they havent.

I’ve done some experimentation during the course of the last year and was able to replicate the discoloration on a piece of EOS, all of which I posted. I have also both spoken to and been in contact by email with Ken Trinder, and he has always been very helpful explaining what the issue probable is and that I will be able to sand off the discoloration. At NO time did he ever say that I was on my own.

It wasnt until the second call that I decided to expierament with other brands and submerge 1/2 of the sample in a pail of water that I took from the apartment complex. I would check each sample every day and for the first few weeks it looked like no effect was taking place. Not until about a month could I see the effect. This is when I posted the current pictures of the spot under the drain board. Lenny was the first one that could explain what was happening and why it happens so that I could understand it better, and I certainly appreciate his knowledge and interest in what i was trying to find out.

I asked if anyone had ever had this happen to them. When no one posted they had. I’m starting to think that the conditions have to be just right for this to occur. Keep in mind under normal everyday use how often a countertop gets wet and for how long. There most likely not submerged in water for a month at a time with out ever drying or being wiped down.

The pictures I’m posting are of a few samples I took from the showroom. All did show some effects although it is a bit difficult to see in the photos.

Again it seams as though this is extreamly rare that this would happen under normal everyday use, and I seem to recall someone posting that solid surface was never meant to be submerged. However being solid surface what I have found is that it can be restored. What a great selling point for a product. I’d be more then happy to show a potential customer a before and after picture.

Steve

Steve,
Any interest in being my R&D Assistant? 
 That is amazing all of the work you have put into this,  I am impressed with your research and am very happy that you took the time to do this.
I have seen Corian palced in a water heater for over a week, with these results, like you said “Solid surface is not meant to be fully submerged for long periods”.
As far a bird baths and out door applications, I think all MFGs admit that they will haze after a period and must be refinished periodically to maintain their look.

I will share your hard work with Ken and Evan, they will apprecieate your hard work.

I have submerged 3 dark colors of EOS, as well as two of our vanity bowls, for the winter in my swimming pool just to see how they would react, to my surprise all thawed out without change or thermal shock, not the most scientific test, just did it for my own amusement.

Thanks again to everyone, please feel free to contact me with any questions or comments.

[Lenny E]

Hi Steve, Hi Gordon,

Steve, thanks for the emails with photos. I opened them an hour ago after returning from the resin plant. I emailed you, I stand corrected but wanted to publicly post it here since I had posted that in the past I had traced other instances of whitening from water to various manufacturing defects.. In this case the effect is not a manufacturer defect since:

1.) Other units in the same complex installed with the material do not exhibit the effect
2.) From the long term soak tests EOS falls within (between) the performance other major brand performance.
3.) The effect is an artifact of that particular customer usage

I looked at 24 and 48 hour “air dry ” photos a moment ago. Based on past experience If the material doesn’t show recovery in a few days after drying out: it may not return to its normal color anytime soon without refurbishing.

Just for laughs
1.) if you dry out the soaked samples with a hair dryer do they get better?
2.) If you dry the sample in an oven (212 F) for an hour or two, does the effect go away?

[Andy Graves]

Great work Steve. Very impressed with your diligence. Lot a time involved in doing a test like this.

[Steve Mehan]

My problems with the EOS material are starting to pop up again, this time with there Barington color.
Below are some images of a bathroom vanity countertop that has the same water discoloration problems.

All of these issues are on the same project and if your new to this thread take the time to read from the begining about the history with this problem.
I will say that after we starting having problems with the EOS products we did stop using them and switched to another brand material and havent had these issues.

Whats bothering me now is I have contacted EOS about this and sent images only to get no responce.

[Andy Graves]

So were you able to sand out the spot like the others.

That’s weird that Gordon wouldn’t get back with you. He is always very responsive.

[Author]

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