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Posts
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I vowed to make a decision by weeks end, and it’s killing me.
Hands down the popular favorite is Photo top. They are Broadway, you guys are Hollywood. Problem is, I like theater.
The best understanding I have of the two systems? LT-55 by a mile.
Best post-interview information? Unclear. I have to see if I have Photo top’s version of the info CD that LT-55 has, but it is first-rate! I’m pretty sure Don sent it to me at the shop.
I was all but PT by the end of the show, and even up till this afternoon. Then I watched the CD demo. I need to give PT a fair shot, but I have to admit, I see posssibiltiies that PT might not be able to extend. For instance, the cost of shooting a kitchen, and the probably easier demarcation of trim.
But the LT does not think in 3-D and Photo top does. Window heights, etc should be easy. Mory, do you guys use Photo top for kitchen measurements – I mean the whole kitchen?
Lowest risk? So far, LT will probably give me 60 days, no hassle. Not sure about PT. I’d have to plan it well, and I’d hope they let me start the timer, but that’s doable.
Versatility – PT, I think. No, I’m sure.
I can see many opportunities for after visit adds and adjustments that I seriously doubt can be had with the LT.
PT question: Can you “Create” nodes on the fly, after the site visit? Cause that would Rock’n’Roll, you know? Can we talk?
The cost difference, while not insignificant, will not come near matching the savings the right tool for the job will.
I am working on a yes/no list. I will save what I have so far in the documents section of this site. I will probably call it Photo top vs LT, or some such obvoius and boring name.
Feel free to debate and discuss – politely, please, but the clock is ticking, and I can only bend space and time a little bit (the advantage of girth, my friends).
Thanks, in advance.
Tom
Tom,
What’s the hurry with your decision?
You need to talk with John, he has the LT-55. I think he loves the system now so he can probably answer most of your questions. Mory and Jon have the Photo-Top and they love it.
Did you get the demo on both systems while at the show?
Tom M wrote
But the LT does not think in 3-D and Photo top does. Window heights, etc should be easy. Mory, do you guys use Photo top for kitchen measurements – I mean the whole kitchen?
Tom,
As far as PT goes, it captures all the data in 3D, but can only create drawings in 2D. If you want to make templates of the countertop and the wall, it cannot be done in one set of pictures. The system takes the set of photos batched into each top and rotates them flat into a 2D plane based on the angle of the lowest numbered marker panel. In other words, if you always use number 01, it needs to be on plane with the counters, because it will spin the entire drawing flat in relation to that target.
Wall templates are no problem, you just need to apply the lowest numbered marker panel to the wall. It will use that as the fixture for rotation. The subsequent marker panels can be orientated any which way you choose, doesn’t matter. There is a way to set up and take all the photos at once, but you have to be tricky when you batch the photos into the software. Whichever marker panel you use as the lowest numbered one, cannot be included in any of the other photos. You are essentially making two templates with one setup. You WILL get two seperate drawings with no 3D components.
Hope that makes sense. If you have any questions, I’d be glad to answer them. We have had PT for about a year and a half, we love it, has caused us almost zero problems. Gimme a call if you wanna discuss.
Matt
618.476.1345
What’s the hurry with your decision?
If I don’t set a time limit, I won’t make a decision. As Clint Eastwood said: “A man’s got to know his limitations.” I think he shot someone right after saying that.
Matt, I will reread your post, as I am scrambling to catch up after the show, and it seems confusing to me on a quick read. I know the dxf images will only be of one plane, but I can still use just one tape set up, yes? And one series of (extensive) photos?
Thanks for you input, guys.
Tom
The file I mentioned is in Forms, Files and Docs (oh my!)
It’s called Photoi top vs LT-55
Thank you all again for the help.
Tom, I have the lt-55 system. I have never used the PT system so I have nothing bad to say. Anyway I do love the lt-55 for a couple of reasone.
1. super easy to use.
2. super easy to use.
3. very accurate (but I am sure both are)
4. Excellent customer support. I called because I needed more targets. ” How many at no charge” WOW
5. Quck. You wil be able to shoot an average kitchen (60-70sq’) in around 15 minutes and that includes hand measureing to verify. I measure everyone by hand because you cannot check your sink centers in the hp ipaq. Yes I have a $1500 vanity top with both sink centers off. I cannot figure out how it happened and I cannot duplicate it.
Then they said just call when you need more.
The things I dont like.
1. The battery on the hp ipaq dies fast and will die even if the unit is turned off and left overnight. The good thing is you can plug it in to the laser unit for power.
2. If you shoot a point into or near a corner and there is a reflection(glossy paint) it will give you an inaccurate measurement.
3. the unit freezes up and must be reset every day.
4. You will not forget the sd memory card untill you have a job to shoot that is 100 miles or more away. OUCH. ( I carry a backup now)
Feel free to call me with any questions.
Did you get the demo on both systems while at the show?
Andy, I got the demo for the LT-55. I also had a copy at the shop I found when I got back. I do not have the demo for the photo top. Never had it, it seems.
Travis, because I’m a lazy cuss, can you email me your phone number?
or call me at (860) 528-5667 shop,
(860) 712-8760 cell,
or tonight at my home studio (860) 742-9093
Thanks.
Tom
Tom,
The cost of the LT-55 is much less than PT, you can have a plotter and a LT-55 for the cost of an PT+2 days training @ Fab Choice. My opinion isn’t completely fair because I sell the LT but I wanted to make sure you had the facts. It was great to finally meet you at the show, good luck with your decision.
Let me know if you need any referals of current LT owners, I have a few that love to brag.
Thanks
Gordon
Tom:
I think two of the most important questions in this debate have not been asked:
How easy is the system to learn? How easy is it for a templater to screw up?
Let’s look at the real world here. Tom, you are going to do the first few templates to get familiar and then hand it off to a trusted employee who knows the system. Let’s say he calls in sick for a week. You’ve got to do templates or hand it off to the second most trusted employee. To paraphrase Dirty Harry, “How lucky do you feel, punk?”
The system that offers the most easy cross-training and least ability to screw up will pay for itself many times over.
Answer these questions and your decision is made.
Joe
Tom,
I have the LT-55 and at first did not like it, however that was due to the lack of knowledge about the unit. Once I had an experienced person show me properly and understand what the laser is basically doing it become very simple and accurate. As far as what Travis stated about the sink centers we place a small piece of tape over the front top of the cabinet and make a center mark, then place another center mark on the wall for the sink, then shoot booth as a separate line. I have not had any problems since doing this. The only draw back I do not like about the system is not having a photo reference for the installers or shop guys. However, a $100 digital camera solved that.
Pros
accurate fast no dots or boards to spend money on unlimited size and/or shapes
Cons
no photo evidence adding a second templator is another separate unit instead of just another camera.
Hard decision, I wish the two could come together and come up with a kick *ss system that everyone would want.
If you have any question feel free to call me
(239)-334-1151
John Cristina
Joe,
You’re right, at least as far as I wrote. I alluded to it when I said it was the easiest for me to comprehend, but that’s not really the same thing. In the word doc I uploaded in the Forms, Files and Docs section I note it.
But scrub what I think. Both John and Travis are pretty confident in the LT-55’s easy learnability, it seems. My gut is fighting my brain on this one. I remember John stating he had a bit of trouble on his, Gordon popped by, and I don’t know what happened, but John became a believer.
Mory, Matt, Jon, so many people I know and respect use the PT. It seems I actually have a “Which good system is the goodest for me” problem. All in all, not a bad kind of problem.
Oh, and for heavens sake, can we agree on some kind of g-code protocal? How great would these be if you could just upload them straight to the machine?
I keep going back to the possibility that I might be measuring kitchens. I can see benefits from both systems.
I haven’t gotten the answer on “nodes on the fly” for PT, so I’m gonna count it out.
My best installer is a luddite who’s just getting over the knews about the round shape of our world, but he understands laser measuring. He understands tri-pod mounting, as he has an awesome surveyor’s transit, etc. Much less computer gobbledy gook on the LT, but I’m not sure it’s to the level where he won’t drop kick me through the goalpost of life. The only hope will be the LT, ’cause he’s one guy you don’t want to lose, and I really like my installers templating the more complex jobs. The customer wins every time.
Architectural millwork I think goes to PT. As long as you can get around the fancy designed receptionists desk, taking ‘tape with dot’ pics should be a snap (heh). I need to figure that in. Of course a Farro arm the length of a room would be the best, but that ain’t an option.
Gordon, I have to say that Dan is great on the phone. If I can verify Travis’ extra free targets by you or compny rep, that’s one more notch for being the kind of company I can do business with.
When this is over, I’ll try to update the file I uploaded to reflect most of the comments. It might be wise to separate them, as I really don’t want to push the competitive thing. You guys are going to a lot of trouble for me. I appreciate it.
John had it best, it seems. Merge the two and it’s unbeatable.
Tom
And Gordon, please don’t be reticent about your opinion because you’re a rep. I wish Don would join in. This could be an awesome reference thread because there really isn’t any losers. It’s more like trying to find the best fit, and that’s a good thing.
I am surprised that no one has asked what I thought would be the obvious question.
Check out this SITE
Tom,
I can verify the free targets rumor and I can also verify that I know that they are replacing a briefcase that one of my customers admitted to breaking on his own. LT has also repaired a couple of abused customer abused units at no charge, I don’t condone this but if Dan wants to do it then more power to him. I am a rep of laser products but also a customer, I own a unit myself, you’ll be surprised how often you will just get random packages from them without notice, new improved targets, improved parts for your tripod, different tripod cases, SD cards with updates, etc. If they send you something expensive, like a new tripod case, then they just usually ask for you to send back your old one or send them a couple of bucks to keep both.
All upgrades are free for a year on the LT? From what I can see that is a lie, they are available FOREVER, because they post them on the website for you to download to your unit anytime you want. They might stop sending you the hard parts after a year but the software is always there for the taking.
Even if the PT offered you the risk free trial period, you would need to still pay to and take the time to got to the 2 day training at fab choice.
The LT creates a DXF. File as you template, no worries that you don’t have enough photos, you can see the drawing in real time with dimensions. You can either use the POcket PC that is included or you can “Bluetooth” to a laptop for a bigger image and the use of a real keyboard. The LT is also creating a quote that includes price, lin inch, square ft, back splash, etc. (this is an awsome feature that you will use very little, but its nice to refer back to so you know if your quote was close).
The SD card can be dropped into the side of a cell phone or laptop and emailed back to the shop with the push of a button, the file is only about 14K big so you don’t need a highspeed line to send. You can fit about 2000 kitchens on a 256mb SD card, extra cards can be bought for around 15.00, I have some 1gb cards that I can actually load full length movies onto and watch them on the pocket PC when I fly. The pocket PC has a calender that you can schedule the days templates onto for your templater and he can just follow the schedule. For around 90.00 you can go to Best buy and buy a GPS hook up for your pocket PC and turn the unit into a TOM TOM type GPS for your template vehicle, your templater may never get lost again.
The units accuracy of 1/16″ is at long distances, the LT will shoot up to 600 ft, it is actually accurate to hundreths of an inch in your average kitchen. If you can shoot 600 ft, there will be very few kitchens that you will not be able to shoot from one set-up point, I have only encountered about 5 in the past 2 years.
I can teach you how to use the unit in about 10 minutes in person, 30 minutes by watching the DVD, or about 30 minutes on the phone, for free!
As far as the model on the video (Dan), he has gotten alot of grief about all the times that you have to stare at his a** everytime he steps infront of the camera, he would sell alot more units if he would have hired the girl from the Karran booth to be the star of the video.
Please feel free to write or call me with any questions or comments.
As Tom said, there are no losers here, I really respect the guys from Fab Choice, I just want to make sure all the details are there for your decision making process.
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