[Lee Steigerwald]

And, my response to this smart, tough lady.

Message Subject: Reader Addresses Counter Materials, Hygenic Concerns
I would like to respond to a letter from Gina Covell,Cosentino North
America,Makers of Silestone.

First off Ms. Covell, let me state that I sell all types of
countertops, granite, engineered stone, laminate, stainless steel, solid surface,
and wood. I also fabricate same.

While your letter is well written, it contains some glaring flaws that
need an answer from your company.

First, engineered stone, e-stone,and quartz are all industry accepted
names for the same product. Your products only difference is the
addition of the micro ban. It is and will remain engineered stone to all in
the industry. Spin all you want, but expect to be called on it.

Two, your product is produced using the same process and patent as all
other engineered stones, is it not? I believe it is called the brenton
process?

Three, there is another patent using marble chips, is there not? Isn’t
calling engineered stone “marble based” misleading? Will you list
these “marble based” engineered stones as well as the quartz based
products?

Four, your product, like ALL engineered stone, or quartz if you prefer
that name, contains from 6 to 7 percent solid surface, polyester or
acrylic. The same polyester and acrylic that comprises solid surface,
indeed there are pure polyester solid surfaces, while acrylics have ath
included. What your industry won’t tell comsumers is that it is by
weight, not volume, meaning a huge amount of acrylic or polyester solid
surface is in your product. Stone chips should weigh about 15 times more
than acrylic or polyester resins, so exactly how much solid surface, by
weight is in your product? Aren’t you affraid that it will scratch
and harbor bacteria and spills? Don’t you say solid surface will stain,
will not your product stain as well since it has solid surface in it?

Five, I saw your company, Silestone, information sheets at a customers
house the other day. I built her kitchen, facilited quotes for all
countertop products, and she choose Silestone for her counter tops. On
these info sheets were warnings about scratching, heat damage, staining
and cautions about cleaning products. In particular, your company
warned about using a common scotchbrite to clean the countertop. It also
warned about oil on the countertop, as well as powder based cleaners.
Bleach had a warning as well, damage if left for more than ten minutes if
I remember correctly. What if I use a product containing bleach and
don’t get it all off?

We both know that only an exceptionally skilled fabricator can polish a
scratch out of an engineered stone/quartz countertop, and we both know
how many gallons of water must be used. We both know that this product
is processed in a wet room with workers wearing waterproof aprons and
rubber boots. When, as your own lititure states, it scratches, will you
pay to remove these countertops and send them back to the fabricator
for polishing? Oh, right, your warantee doesn’t cover heat damage or
scratching.

We both know that engineered stone, or quarz if you prefer, is the same
product. It as good points and bad. We both know that the engineered
stone used in the test dodged a big bullet, it didn’t leave a white
ring when the hot pot was set on it. I can provide links to some
consumers who weren’t so lucky. The seam issue was dodged as well, we both
know how bad they are comparied to other products. I watched your
template man put a ten inch peice in the most noticable end of a penninsula on
last friday (total two seams in about ten feet of narrow top), when
most would have used a little more mateial and made it in one peice.

Ms. Covell, your product is a good choice for a countertop, one of many
good choices. However, if you continue to oversell the products,
consumers will be dissapointed. Attacking Mr. Heapy’s colunm was poor
judgement on your part. He is a leading expert in the countertop industry.
Attempting to use misleading information, while not admitting your own
products shortcomings was short sited as well.

Again, we use all countertop materials, so I have no axe to grind
except watching one of my customers get a countertop she is ultimately
unhappy with. I will continue to recomend your product to customers wanting
an engineered stone countertop.

I look forward to your response.
Cordially, AL Gerhart, cabinetmaker and countertop maker since 1977.

[Andy Graves]

What Al said.

[Mory Ludwick]

I Second That .

Mory

[Reuben Hoff III]

Al,

Well put..

Hey I tried to look at the warrantee stuff and couldn’t get on to the actual page. Could you e- mail me at hoffstops@cozadtel.net to let me know what I need to do?

[gogranite]

Reuben, I added your email to the collaborators list tonite. Anyone can read in, only those who send me an email can be added to the list. I could leave it open to just anyone, but then someone could go in a erase or highjack the post. Doing it this way is a little more work, but will keep any problems in check.

Let me know if you have any more trouble working on it. Thanks, Al.

[Tom M]

Three, they think the future is not solid surface, but something else. This is the most likely in my opinion.
If true, and I think you’re right al, then the whole point Jon, Mory, and Andy are making is for nought. I was at a conference in January ’05, when the solid surface manufacturer repped by the distributor openly admitted that they were placing most of their eggs in the Home Center basket. (Jon – you were there too). This is telling in several ways:
They are after the big numbers. Nothing wrong with that, but it does not mean me. I buy a serious amount of solid surface. One of the largest buyers in my state, but I don’t hold a candle next to the necissarily high-volume guys who perform fabrication for Home Centers.
They care less about the long-term health of the industry than about moving the numbers now. This is short-sighted, but it is their right to do it. The result is an expanded version of what we do here and now: defend and promote the product as you need to to stay alive.
The bean counters have taken over the plant. All that talk about efficient manufacturing, volume pricing, the possibility that you are “over-fabricating” the product (I have actually been told this), helped the manufacturer move more product (which has not seen the price reductions that fabrication has endured), and keeps us in a never-ending loop for new and more jobs.

Your links in this thread, by the way, have been nothing less than spectacular. My hat is off, sir.

Tom

[Tom M]

Andy,
If we can overcome that, we can surely overcome a few negative experiences with the manufacturers. Don’t you think?
Sure. I’m with you all the way to the “Shame on me” party after they decide to throw us over again. We have a choice? I truly think that they have no problem with helping us out when it is in all of our interests. I also have no doubt that they will take any action that helps only themselves, if the situation calls for it – even at our expense.

This is their right.I might do the same if I was in their shoes. I’m not.
I will, however, stand with you to try it again. It’s kind of like my fascination with ISSFA. It is an organization that has turned its back on one of its major tenets, but there is still much value in it, so I support it. Unfortunately, the tenet they turned from was the main attraction for me.

Tom

Tom

[Tom M]

A haiku for Al,
You have natural
Testicular Fortitude
I say: “Good on ya'”

another:
Al sees rude attack
responds with the sword of truth
Al, have my baby.

ok. that last line might have been a bit much, but stil….

Tom

[Tom M]

as all y’all can see, I’m just catching up with this post. Sorry to pile on.

Al, I’m having trouble seeing the Consumer Reports reply letter at the site. Do we need to register first?

Tom

by the way, this is simil;ar to a test they did years ago, before estone was in the picture. Granite was the big winner.

Also, reading the comments at the stone forum you linked to, Al, I hope we don’t come off as smarmy and condescending regarding our industry as they do regarding theirs.. Engineered Gravel? Well!

Tom

[Tom M]

Jon,
you said: In many ways the Solid surface industry is in a survival posture from top to bottom.
I have to ask, though, did you and i get us there? Was it just the way the ball dropped? Or is it the folks that we are now discussing teaming up with again? I remember Oxley’s seminar at one of the ISSFA shows, before he was President, or Director, or whatever. It was the first time someone explained the business cycle in terms I could easily understand. We used cell-phones as an example to explore the cycle. Then something different happened. They put cameras in the cell phones, and the whole industry took off again.

I suggested, after meeting him in his new ISSFA capacity, that we need to find a way to “put the camera into the Corian”. A trend needs to be started – or several trends – that solid surface is a natural for providing. The material will then sell itself once more. We nered to work smart (yeah, hard too, but in a smart kind of way). The Z-island tops are close. It needs to have ap[peal across the customer spectrum, though.

I apologize for the several posts. I had to load each reply separate and this was the best way.

Tom

[Charlie Fanning]

Tom, here is the link again. http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dftkrj3r_1dbnzbg Anyone should be able to view the letter, let me know if you continue to have trouble. To modify or add to the letter, please send me an email at al@thecarpentershop.net . I usually check email at night and can add your email address to the collaborators list so you can pitch in.

Thanks for the kudos, save them till this is done. I’ve picked up much of this info or the idea to search for it, from this site and others. You guys have already done all the thinking, I’m just pasting it together. I actually used a letter from another site as a template for the open letter rough draft. Just basically took the other guys main points and elaborated on them. Of course I posted on the same site to give credit for the use of the ideas, even made some changes recomended.

Now, understand this, please. I don’t consider the writing on the open letter to CR to be my best work, it needs a lot of polishing and some major revision. Now, the response to the lady who attacked Jim Heady’s column, that was good cause I was pi**ed off after seeing Jim’s well researched and well written column trashed by a corporate shill.

Smarmy? Boy, are they ever! We do need to avoid coming off like that. Have you heard that they refer to e-stone as the particle board of the stone industry? I don’t mind critizism, so don’t anyone hold back if I wander over to the dark side, just be sure and offer a solution or an idea for changing the message.

[Jon Olson]

Boy Tom you have been busy with the posting. Tom I do believe that where on our way. Yes the z-island may be out there but we can gleam from that example and start thinking where can we incorporate some of those concepts into what we do. I don’t believe Corian is all about the big stores they do have to invest in that segment. If they don’t someone else will.

Tom that was quite a show last winter maybe too big.

Al great job on the letter I just checked it out.

[Tom M]

Jon,
Did you have to sign in to get access to the letter? I only get to a generic page that describes the process.
As far as my posting storm, I’ve been working on an ad campaign, trying to look at a boat purchase, and running low-voltage lines out to my sound studio/workshop that is not attached to my house. We just built a retaining wall, so it seemed the time was right to bury and run the wires. I’ve been reading the forum pretty regular though. You guys are the best.

By the way, Jon, some EOS guy from Jersey called. He will be coming out sometime in November. I know you guys are some of the best informed on this stuff. What do you think? Have you checked any other similar brands? Call me if you need to (860) 528-5667. I’ve spoken to Grant awhile ago, and I’ve been trying to look at ways to take advantage of the new materials.

Tom

[Auke van der Molen]

Tom, you may have to register or set up an account to view the letter. It is free, but if needed I can send you a copy email.

Sorry for the problem.

[Author]

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