-
Posts
-
One more thing. We really need to stop and ask ourselves-What did this article actually do to us? Has it had any impact in your shop. I know it hasn’t in mine. How many people actually read Consumer Reports? The benefits of Solid Surface are obvious to the consumer. Two of the biggest selling points-No Seams, Integrated Sink. I know you all know that. The granite and quartz can’t do it. We can spend alot of time on this, and chances of getting a retraction are slim at best. Or just just leave it be and focus our attention on marketing with the manufacturers and get and agressive campaign going directly with the manufacturers. Its their product and they need to sell it. Now I know, but I can’t mention any names of some manufacturers that are going to be getting very agressive with advertising.
Mory
Yes, Mory. I have already changed a few things. We definetly don’t need to send anything till we have a concensus. We need to be diplomatic, yet firm. If we don’t stand up tall, we will lose the support of some fabricators. In this one thing, we need a united front, with every fabricator and his family and his happy customers helping out with letters.
As far as a point man, manufactures are important but have a dog in the fight. Independent fabricators, especially those who sell granite, e-stone, laminate, stainless, and solid surface, less of an axe to grind.
I saw parts of a great dateline nbc show the other day, about the power of the internet to battle big corporations. How many of us who have lived in a small town knows that you can’t afford to screw people over in such a small pond. The internet has made the united states a small pond.
Dave, send me your email and I’ll add your name to the collaborator list so you can put in your two cents. The more voices the better on this. Once written, it can be edited for a cover letter, but we need many authors for this to work.
Al,
I’m sorry I didn’t mean it was a good start, I meant it was a good start. Nobody, including myself, has taken the time to start writing a response. I think you have done an outstanding job and after everyone adds to it, it should be a fantastic letter. I keep asking myself over and over, why haven’t the manufacturers responded to this. I like to think about things for quite some time before I react. I know alot of manufacturers cover all the bases in countertops, but I also know they have lots of solid surface inventory and alot in production. Now as good business people, I can’t imagine them not caring about solid surface. So I keep asking that question, Why haven’t they responded. Still doing research, but my instinct tells me that this report is so inconsequestial that it will virtually have no effect on the market. You are correct about the internet, though. It is a very powerful tool and it makes the whole world a very small town. But then, there is alot of information on the internet. You have to be searching for what you want. I am not being negative about this whole thing.
Mory
I think the letter will help solidify us as a strong group. Consumer Reports will not retract anything, but they may call us the next time they are going to do a test and maybe they will consider things that will increase our test ratings.
The Fabricator Network needs to be the lead in this because we have less of a financial stake in the test results. If the manufacturers go complain, consumer reports will assume they are only doing so because of the money.
I think we have enough credibility as a group to influence them to think differently the next time.
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
I agree,
Like a lot of you I sell many products Laminate, Solid Surface, Quartz, and Granite and coming from companies that sell different products they would more likely listen rather than a manufacturer that just had their product slammed. I will be signing this letter when it is done and the more of us that do just might help make a difference. Good job Al.
Shane
Mory, I deeply respect not only your experience in solid surface, but your experience in life. Your restraint will be a valuable anchor adding stability to this effort. I am not urging speed of response, this thing has festered for months with no response from any of the brands, who have the most to loose as you so well point out. What I am advocating is action to build a team of the willing and able to do what needs to be done.
Reading the surfaces magazine, listening to Dani, internet reasearch into e-stone and granite all points to one conclusion. Our product is being slammed with no one standing up for it. and we are losing market share. You want proof? Look at Surfaces magazine, those guys run a bunch of magazines if I am not mistaken and know when to put money in and when to get out.
Some advocate jumping ship to the new direction of e-stone and stone. Remember the article awhile back where the shop told of the change in a few years from majority solid surface to majority e-stone? Yes, given a chance we all can sell circles around the competing products, but we won’t have the chance if we don’t stand up together and push everyone off their comfortable perch on the fence. Once consumers e learn a little crap off the internet, it is harder to open their eyes to the truth.
You aren’t coming across as negitive at all, just cautious. Your point of just minding our business and ignoring this is an option, and yes the chance of Consumer Reports responding is small. Yet there is enough of us to saturate the internet, consumer reports and the media if needed. All C.R. has to sell is their credibility, do you think they can stand up to a group of experts in the field? I can post hundreds of consumer nightmares with competing products, all proving their report was poorly done. We have nothing to lose, they have their only asset to lose, their reputation for fairness. A marketing campaign by the brands will work if backed up by all us fabricators, but why should they spend their cash when we haven’t done what we can do? I know that Consumer Reports has been attacked before, maybe by a company, maybe by a trade association. They have never been attacked by an entire profession. And it won’t take that much time for any of us to do this, just add to the letter, encourage others to do so as well, contact the brands by all means and let them join in.
This is our fight. If we stand back anymore, why should a manufacture spend capital on gaining market share? Why should they not just slip sideways into e-stone or certified granite?
Respectfully, AL.
Here is another viewpoint from another industry.
http://www.stoneadvice.com/forum/Stone-Tips3292.html&highlight=consumer+reports
Al, good points. In the 32 years I have in business I have only had 3 dissatisfied customers and it wasn’t over product quality it was over scheduling.
I love solid surface and all my customers love their solid surface tops. I only sell products to my customers that I know they will be happy with, not what some else says they must buy. 90% of my business is from referrals or repeat customers. Unhappy customers do not give referrals.
Dani
And another http://www.stoneadvice.com/forum/Stone-Tips441.html&highlight=consumer+reports
Even the stone guys are using this against us.
I would like to say that I know many here fabricate more than just solid surface, more of a reason to get involved. You all know the pro and cons for all your surfacing materials. Left unchecked this bad press about a quality product will only get worse. Yes, it will effect the sales of one of your best selling products, not today or tomorrow, but down the road it will, by then it will be too late. The time is now to demand fair testing practices for all surfacing products. Demand all tops tested to be the same as they are delivered to the customer. That means a standard edge treatment like a 3/8” radius on all solid tops. Also Estone is polished and is in polyester so it should be compared to a polished polyester solid surface top. I would even donate a polished top to be tested, fact we should all get together and make the tops to be tested from Estone to butcher block. Also come up with a fair testing procedure for all products. That means all the way from cleaning the product to repair. In my opinion Consumer Reports testing method was very poor and not well thought out. We need Lenny, to draft up a proper testing program. We should not allow half way testing procedures to go on and mislead the consumer, it’s our products there talking about.
Dani Homrich
Dani DesignsMory, I have given some thought to what you said about asking yourself over and over why the brands haven’t responded to the CR letter. On one of the links that I posted yesterday, a stone guy talked about why e-stone brands and Dupont is spending so much time and money marketing e-stone and certified stone. It got me to thinking as well.
I find that the quickest way to solve a mystery is to first break it down and then find out who is profiting from the deal. Now, the question is why the brands aren’t fighting back. Three possible things are happening, one is that they are, but taking their time. Two, they are ignoring it, hoping it will blow over and people will forget about it. Three, they see the future and it isn’t solid surface that is making their money in the future. If anyone can come up with more reasons, please bring them to the table for discussion.
Now, I am no expert, but I have always heard that negitive press. needs to be addressed quickly, forcefully, and only once. The idea is to not let it fester, if you plan on responding, say what needs saying and then shut up. Don’t drag it out, especially if there is some truth to the bad press. Perhaps their response requires gathering experts or doing testing to refute the CR report. Okay, good move, but wouldn’t it be better to tell someone what was going on? Has this been discussed on the issfa site? Is any response being formulated there?
Two, letting it blow over. No way these guys are doing that, too much money invested, too many people using it against us, and the coverage was not only in the magazine and online, but at many, many t.v. stations across this land. I’m going to say that option two is not probable.
Three, they think the future is not solid surface, but something else. This is the most likely in my opinion. One of the stone guys mentioned that the margins are slimmer in e-stone, ie, the slab manufacture or distributor has more profit due to a restricted supply, thus able to charge more per square foot than natural stone. Researching stone on the internet, you can find it incredibly cheap, down as low as two bucks a foot in containers. Average homeowner stuff is five to eight dollars per foot, up to the mid twentys for pretty nice stone. Perhaps the flood of stone importers and new fabricators, as well as imported solid surface sheets keeping prices low, has convinced the brands to look for a more restricted market. If so, a good business man would not keep beating the dead horse, instead look to sell his inventory of the old and slip into the new.
I think you would find two kinds of solid surface fabricators here on this site, the business men and the craftsmen. No doubt most successful ones are a mix of both, but all will lean to one side or the other. I doubt that very large manufactures with publicly traded stock, or owned by such corporations. will be anthing but business men. I am not casting stones at any company, indeed the sucessful ones do listen to fabricators, but survival means having someone smart enough to look down the road and see what is coming.
Another interesting point made on one of the links I posted, the fact that one stone guy was smart enough to point out that some of their problems were self inflicted. I believe his point was the practice of sealing everything, whether it needed it or not. He posted that this gave other products ammo to be used against stone, constant sealing required or it will stain. Actualy, even the stone forums themslves give me plenty of ammo to use against competing products. Heck, if I want to find customers with problem countertops, go to a stone site and find all you want. True if you bother to read it in context, it is a little less damaging and their problem is the same as ours, good fabricating practice, good material, good tools, training and not overselling the product.
Which brings me to the finial question. If I am correct and the brands are shifting focus to a more profitable product, is some of this our fault, even my fault for researching and planning to get into e-stone and stone in the near future?
Here is a response from Silestone to a column written by Jim Heapy, who responded to Consumer Reports test article.
Dear Editor:
We at Silestone want to thank you for addressing and elevating the conversation about the need for cleaner countertops in Jim Heaphy’s Fabricating Techniques column, “Analyzing Kitchen Sanitation and Countertop Choices,” which appeared in the March issue of Kitchen & Bath Design News. However, we were greatly disappointed with the level of research presented, as we feel that it represented only a fraction of the full “cleaner kitchen” picture, most specifically as it relates to solid surface versus granite, engineered stone and the most rapidly growing countertops category that wasn’t even mentioned: quartz surface.According to our research, and based on U.S. Gallup information and a DIY Network independent study, concern about bacteria is a huge and growing issue. In fact, the study discovered that 79% of consumers believe keeping their house hygienic is one of their main concerns, the kitchen being the greatest area of concern. Therefore, it surprises us that nowhere in this column did it address quartz surfacing and, more specifically, Silestone with Microban antimicrobial protection.
Solid surface is a soft material that scratches, and therefore traps and retains all sorts of spills, stains and bacteria. Granite and other natural and engineered stone (marble-based) materials require periodic sealing to render them less porous.
Quartz, by contrast, is non-porous and naturally repels spills and stains, and Silestone is now available with built-in Microban protection that inhibits the growth of mold, mildew and bacteria 24/7 for the life of the product. This is especially important because it is a proven fact that under the right conditions, microbes double every 20 minutes on a surface.
Furthermore, the section of the article entitled “Simple Solutions” was confusing in that it did not really provide any truly “simple” solutions to the cleanliness dilemma. We found it interesting that the use of antibacterial and antimicrobial products found on supermarket shelves was dismissed, while the list of simple solutions provided included everything from using bleach or ammonia with a mixture of water and vinegar to focusing on the necessary cleanliness of “the individual cook.”
The column mentioned that regular stone countertops are fine as long as the “cook sanitizes all food contact surfaces properly.” However, it failed to fully explain what was meant by “sanitizes properly.”
We agree that the need for a simple yet effective solution is needed because we have found that 69% of people are very conscious of food poisoning risks and the danger of bacteria in food, with the kitchen work top being the surface for highest concern.
Finding a simple, safe solution is precisely the reason Silestone quartz surfaces partnered with Microban International in the production of the world’s only countertop with built-in Microban antimicrobial product protection. The resulting countertop product meets consumer demand for new products that combat germs.
Maintaining the cleanliness of the countertop is the real issue at hand. Yes, consumers can clean their countertops using myriad products. But the article never addressed the frequency with which the homeowner should do so. Our research has found that 83% of homeowners agree it is important to stop bacteria from spreading in their homes. The beauty of providing the consumer with a countertop surface containing built-in Microban protection is that the surface inhibits the growth of mold, mildew and bacteria for the life of the product.
Gina Covell
Public Relations Manager
Cosentino North America
Makers of Silestonelt;P>Please visit the page and respond by clicking on the link at the top of the article. I have, although whether or not they post it is another matter.
http://www.kitchenbathdesign.com/publication/article.jsp?id=3194
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.