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We are going to order a festool rotex 150 feq on monday from Monument Toolworks and are wondering which festool vacuam is better, the ct22 or the ct33. I can see the diference in size and capacity but the cfm seems to be the same. Any body have both models? We are going after the package deal and would like to order it al at once.
Al, Get the Model 33. I have used both, and for the price difference the 33 will do all you want. We use it in houses all time, it is just a perfect size to get around. I bought their small circular saw and guide system with mine, it is priceless. I just bought their jigsaw. I know the tools are expensive, but it really is the best money you will ever spend. I also have the ETS 150 sander.
Don’t forget to order extra bags too.
Al,
Retraction here… Iwas thinking the 22 was the smallest one, but actually the CT Mini is. I have the CT 22 and not the 33. Sorry for the confusion.. KC
Al, get the reusable bag for it too, you have to replace the disposable ones way too often, and even those aren’t cheap. They also have an attachment kit which comes in handy to sweep out cabinets and such. The circular saw is pretty cool too, I use it to cut old laminate tops in half if they are too big, keeps the dust down in the customer’s house.
Norm,
I’m not sure what I would do without their vac. The customers are amazed we can do all that work without really any dust. I just bought their jigsaw…. never thought I would spend $280 for a jigsaw, but I have already decided it was money well spent.
I didn’t know they have reusable bags, thanks for that tip. I just bought another 5′ extension to use with my circular saw. Amazing how the 2 can mate up and you get a perfect straight cut.
I did ask for the extra bags, but didn’t know about the reusable ones. That jig saw and saw is on my wish list. Thinking that the saw might be used instead of a router to clean up stacked edges, maybe. Sure save on router bits.
Al,
I have the saw as well and it is a great saw, but I think you will want to stick with the router to clean up the edges.
Shane
That was an idea from a guy working a festool selling company at issfa this year, sounded good at first look. Currently, we are using stacked edges, routering, belt sanding and then profiling with another router. Thinking the saw would cut faster and be cheaper on sharpening costs. The edge the guy at issfa showed looked good enough to belt sand. Supposedly, he was a fabricator who helped out at the show……..
Shane, is there a particular reason I should chuck this idea? I can router an edge pretty quickly, but it is a little bumpy to router without belt sanding first.
Al, it sounds like either your router bits are not sharp enough, or you are trying to go to fast. All my edges are stacked, I router off a 1/16 of an inch, if that doesn’t get all of it then I do it again. After that I put my Rotex on rotary with 80 grit paper and clean up the edge, then switch it to random orbit to get it completely smooth.
Hi Norm.
Newly sharpened bits, every job both short for seams and 2″ for stacked edges. Most are Freud. We use a wood base with each side sized a little smaller till it cleans up, usually two passes, sometimes three. We put maybe eight to ten pounds of force, just enough to get good size “flakes” coming off the bit instead of fine stuff. Three and a quarter hp porter cable router, fairly new, set at top speed.
We tried some “staggered bits”, had knotches cut out in the blades and they cut faster, but left lines on the edges. They still dulled pretty fast. We do alot of avonite acrylic, polyester and some staron, pinicle, formica and even a little dovae. Seems some cuts faster and easier than others. What brand do you cut the most of? Do you ever use the stand up edge, what we call commercial edge? Quite a few of our competitors are using it.
I ordered that festool from Monument Toolworks today. Can’t wait to try that rotary mode for cleaning up edges that you mentioned. Anything would beat that belt sander!
Al,
We rarely use the belt sander on our edges, or anywhere for that matter. We double stack our edges and leave the build up out just slightly from the deck then we use a bottom bearing (bearing rides on deck) two flute flush cut router bit to flush the build up to the deck. It cleans up the edge fast and smooth and doesn’t matter if you have an inside or outside radius it just follows the deck. Works great!
We also rarely do a stand up edge, I really don’t like having only a ½” thick build up so if we do a stand up edge we double it up and make it 1” thick. We usually only do them if we are doing a large edge profile.
Shane
Shane, I’ve tried using doing what you are talking about but used a top bearing bit, with the countertop right side up, with the bearing riding along the deck, leaving the buildup proud of the deck, but I always have to scrape a bunch of adhesive off before I do it so that the bearing rides on it. Maybe I use to much adhesive, probably so, but I have reverted back to a bearing less bit with phenolic straight edges to clean up the edges. One of the reasons I don’t do a drop edge is because I need a better table saw, I just don’t trust the cut to be clean enough so that you won’t see an adhesive line. Also, in Tampa I have not seen anyone else do a stacked edge, so I am calling that my trademark as a better top than everyone else is producing, the ole feel under the edge story.
Norm, I guess we need to start a list now. Al also does a 2″ stacked edge. I thought we were the only two! Al, I use a 1 1/8″ Amana top bearing 2″ cut lenght/ We get a sandable edge, but as norm says, you have to watch your adhesive squeeze out. I also let the bearing run on the straight edge. Al, you will find the Festool saw and straightedge handy for cutting ends to final lenght. I would leave my tops about 1/2-3/4 long until I got my field seam cut. Using a router, it was slow to hog off that much, but the saw you can cut in seconds, dust free.
Norm, I do the stacked edges also, but to clean up I use my plunge router for the horsepower with a guide bushing in the bottom and a sharp two flute 1/2″ router bit and then I put a Penske stright edge about 1/16″ back from edge and go until I have the front cleaned off. Then just grab my 6″ sander with 120 grit and clean up the few chatter marks. If I have to do a drop edge I rip my peices to size and I built a L jig with iron I clamp those together and then run them through my router table to get the edge smooth enough to use to seam up to the deck. I am starting to think about using Festool tools more, but what is the report on the routers wich one is the best for overall solid surface fabrication?
Norm, KC glad to see guys doing the 2″ stacked edge, I have been looking at doing it, but no one else seemed to so I thought it must not be cost effective for the jobs, so I haven’t done them all the time maybe I should look at this again.
Shane, are you guys cnc or still in the stone age like us? I can see if cnc gives you a precise cut top, your way would have big advantages. My reason for doing it this way is that I was trained that way by avonite, old dog, old tricks you know. I have a new guy in the shop who mentioned doing it the way you do it, but what holds me back is getting the top peice “perfect” enough and keeping the buildup lined up. Way I figure it, doing the top oversize, routing the inside corners and front first, gives me a little “collar” on the back for screw ups. Once the front is good, we trim sides and back to size.
Our new guy is having trouble adjusting. Their way was to build oversize and scribe and fit on site. My way is for the darned thing to fit when I get it there, scribe is for mistakes, happens once in a while but rare.
I am going to try your method on the next vanity top to see if it works for us. I can see that trimming one inch thick is better than one and a half inch thick. Like Norm, I am a little leary of the table saw cut for a standup edge. Maybe that top bearing bit from Amana that KC uses is more stable than one without a bearing. I’ll try some of those as well
KC, we don’t use 2″ on every job, just some. It does look good doesn’t it!
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