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Posts
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We use a Frued solid surface blade and still get chips even with a power feeder.
I feel foolish asking this of a carpenter, but have you checked the fence for parallell?
If I just committed a major sin, you may strike me.
Tom
good point, Tom, but yes that is very important and is checked on a weekly basis as part of our maintance. Also the angle of the power feeder is checked on every set up to be sure it doesn’t push to hard against the fence and push it out of parallel.
The chipping is pretty minor, but it is there. You guys don’t have any trouble with it?
I still see only one inch of glue surface area on a verticle surface against 1.5″ for a stacked edge. It should compute like a beam, double the size should quadruple the strength, so adding a half inch shoud at least double the impact resistance.
Any tests ever been done on this, Dani? Are they available?
Al, no way you should be getting chipping with a Freud SS blade. A) Whats the part # of the blade? B) Chipping with a new or sharpened blade?
Toms question about the fence is seriously valid. Had a customer call one day to proclaim that every blade he had sharpened, chipped & was burning. His Biesmeyer fence was over an 1/8″ out from front to back.
I’ll check on the part number of the blade, maybe four or five jobs on the blade. Might be able to photograph some of the chipping.
Tom M wrote
Wes,
Speak up, I can’t hear you through your shouting.
Heh.
Sorry about that. Damn “caps lock” key.
Dani,
Thank you for your informative posts. I tried your method of using a piece of malamine on the face side when seaming and it worked very well. I can see cutting down on seam sanding time with that method.
Johnny C
Johnny C
Joe C was doing a 36” deck seam today so I timed how long it took him to sand it out. He used the seam alignment block method with the deck clamped face down. The major advantage of clamping the deck face down is that you have very little squeeze out to sand off, unlike clamping face up where the adhesive tends to pool on the joint requiring much more sanding. Joe used a Porter-Cable 7336 sander, a flat sanding pad, and 80µ sand paper dry. He did not use anything to knock down the adhesive before he started sanding. From start to finish 3 min 9 sec. The seam was perfectly flat and without any visible adhesive showing any where on the entire seam. Joe said “That looks absolutely great and I didn’t even need my Festool.” The system works very well, perhaps you could give this a try also.
Dani
Dani,
Thanks, I did try it and I meant to post a result. The seam was perfectly flat and the sanding time was under 4 minutes. Now I am a believer. Thanks!
Johnny C
I’ve been reading the posts and it sounds to me like “seams are done in four minutes”.. maybe sanding but How long does it take to set up the benches, the jigs, dry fitting the seam, bringing in the leveler blocks, , in some cases heat gun cup deflation, setting up the clamps to squeeze the pieces together,etc. In some cases those fabricators like myself who might spend 6 or 7 minutes sanding their seams make up that 2 or 3 minutes they lost in glue-up preparation by using my Festool 6″ and a Paralign seam kit. I figure out my profits and money wasted on the overall of the job, not on a procedure. I have a buddy of mine that spends 20 minutes on the clock bragging about his 5 minute seam…I think we all probaly are in the same ballpark from start to finish, who knows?????????
Gene,
Good point made about the total time for the procedure. Never really thought about it that way. Paralign and the FESTOOL would probably be equal time but less set up and training time. I haven’t used both so I am not sure.
FEDSAWDAVE wrote
4 Minutes??OK, first off to my knowledge Johnny C has not purchased or uses any of my products and yet the information he posted, that backs up what I had previously said, is questioned once again by a person that has NOT done the test himself. If you have nothing to compare to then you have no facts to back up your question. Johnny C did the test which proves my post is totally true. I do not post inaccurate, false, or misleading statements about fabrication ever. I always take to time to go through them many times to make sure all the information I am giving is 100% accurate. I do not market or sell my products on this BB, but it seams every time I post useful information to help fabricators, it is constantly being doubted by people that have little knowledge of what I am even talking about, or it is always followed by a post that basically says BUY THIS TOOL AND IT WILL FIX ALL YOUR PROBLEMS> Sorry, tools do not fix problems, but a fabricators knowledge does fix problems, and without knowledge it is impossible to improve the quality of product they send out the door.
Dani
Dani & Dave,
Okay here is my two cents worth on this continue battle between the two of you.
Now I purchase items from both of you and the knowledge that the two of you have given me is well appriciated, but sometimes I feel you both at times get a little to sensitive about the others ideas or products for that matter.
Dani your method is treid and true by those you have talked to and sold to as well as Daves to those he has sold his to and to my knowledge it was a former fabricator that came up with the idea not Dave (FedSaw Wes is it) and I have read support for his products just like I have read support for yours. I have some of your products clamps and sanding pads one works better for me than another. I have treid your technioques and do they save time yes some, but I like others look at the overall time for the entire project to turn out the look I am looking for or my customer is more like it. I must say though I have experimented with ideas from Dani, Dave and alot of others to see what works and to be perfectly honest it is probably a combination of all not just one that I have settled onto acheive what is the best fit for my touch and then have to adaspt it some for the help becouse they have a different touch than I. No two of us will use the exact same way to get it done, but if we keep or discusions of techniques open, honest and not judgmental on who is right or wrong better or worse we all have more to gain.
Information is priceless all our experiences or different, unique and each brings a different perspective to the situations at hand and we all can learn something from each other even if we do not always agree, but we can do it with out smashing each other in the keyboards. You know kinda maybe like hands in pockets at times.
I hope as not to offended either one of you in this post because I truley value both of your perspectives that you bring to the BB. I feel it should be up to those of us fabricating to decifer the correct time and techniques, after all most of us have a real good idea how long it really takes from beginning to end but we all create a countertop in the end. Just both please try to not be more cordial towards the others opinions and we all will benifit.
Sorry but felt it needed to be said. yell at me if you wish.
Reuben
Reuben and Al,
I do not have a problem with what you have said or either of you on this BB, but I do not like how
the problem is being addressed. There is much more going on and it seams to me that no one seams to care about verbal attacks towards some posters by certain posters.
To be honest I am very reluctant the post any information on this BB, because every time I do
I know that Andy will have to delete 4 of 5 post by another poster that are Off the Wall or disrespectful comments, and directed directly towards my knowledge, company, or products. Those type of comments seem to be just OK with all of you, sure your customers do not read this BB, but my customers do. With post like Dani & Dave, readers that have not read the off the wall comments that Andy has deleted would assume I was on the offense not the defense, making personal attacks on that other poster, which is totally wrong. I do not bite unless I have been bitten. Just to give am example Andy deleted 5 post that I know about in response that were totally disrespectful and smart @$$ comments after my Joe C post at 8:09 PM post on the 10th, if you look the next post that is showing is Johnny C’s post at 8:00 on the 11th almost 24 hours later. Many of you here are on the other side of the fence, let me just open the gate for a minute so you can see it from my side of the fence. Let’s say you and Al walked out to your shops this morning and you open the shop door and found that over the night some had walked off with all your tools, that would be devastating, I know the feeling because I had it happen to me once. That is exactly what’s happening to me on this BB on a regular bases, and it has absolutely no effect on any of you at all, but it could have an effect on my business and that is all I am trying to prevent. All I have to do is make 1 post to try to repair the damage done by these type of comments and you are down my throat like a cold beer on a hot summer day and saying nothing about why I had to make the post. I am not alone with such comments, Wags and Kelsey among a few others have also had similar off the wall and disrespectful comments directed towards them personally, that also seems to be fine with all the regular posters here. So once again a thread with a lot of valuable information from all posters is dragged through the mud. I my opinion all the great posters here should not allow this to ever happen again. The sad thing about things happening like this is the technical side of a thread gets lost. My post was not actually about how much time it takes or what type of sander to use, it was about how to achieve a perfectly flat Deck seam in any situation to eliminate extra sanding so that, like the photo below does not happen to the tops of other readers of the post. I think that many of you forget that not all the readers here are 10 year veterans of deck seam sanding, who can belt sand or grind a deck seam perfectly flat with their eyes closed in a gale force wind. I have seen this same situation on other fabricators tops time and time again and it is one of the most time consuming repairs a fabricator will ever have to do.
Dani
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