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I didn’t know where to put this so I guess this will do. I was just curious to here from those that install laminate tops ( not my favorite choice but …). When you have to install a top in between two walls and the seam is about 1/16″ spread how do you get the glue in there without making a mess? Or is it better to put it on one side spread it a little and the tighten together? Also I use a system similar to what Tom M has explained to level the seams so is there a good wood glue that does not set so fast? Just curious .
Reuben
Reuben,
Good question. The short answer is “I don’t know.”
If you are open from the bottom and have the right access, you could put a small back-bevel on the bottom and squeeze up from there. Another problem is splined joints. In a wall to wall, it is impractical to use them, I would think.We don’t feel much need for a spline if we are using the cleated system I mentioned on that thread. To be honest, we gave up on adhesive with the cleats, but we still can get a colored phenoseal in through the small gap in the seam at the top. We always warn customers in all circumstances with field miters or joints to keep the wet away!
Tom
Reuben,
I basically would lift up one side and spread glue on the
seam and just about everything else, I usually make a hell of a mess. If I can’t
lift one side I will force the glue into whatever gap there is. I never use
splines, biscuits, or a scab piece on the bottom. Well actually I have scabbed a
piece on the bottom before but very rarely. We use four draw bolts on a
standard top and if we can’t get to them we will use Parallign’s. Getting to
the bolts was always the biggest problem for me but now with the Parallign’s we
can still assemble a tight seam on those occasions.Shane
Reuben,
It is very important to get glue in that joint. and make sure you have 100% coverage. Dont worry about the mess, the glue will clean up with water as long as you do it before it dries. We also use paralign clamps in those instances where there is no way to get to the miter bolts. We will occasionaly scab a peace under the tops just so when pushing down on the paralign clamps the top does not sag. Getting those clamps to grab when the top sags is a pain in the a**.
We have three types of miter/butt joint situations, depending on the needs of the job. One, which we snigger and snear at the customer who wants it (just kidding, but we go out our way to dissuade them), is the dogbone and ship method. Three or four routes with the dogbone fasteners and ship. Second is the splined and glued joint. Third is the cleated joint with leveling screws approx. 2″ apart on each side of the joint. It allows us to provide an extremely level and readjustable top for the customer, but cannot be glued, owing to the faster absorption and set throughout the end grain.tom
Tom.
Your cleated joint with leveing screws is similar to what I use, but sounds a lot cheaper. i do not know what they are called but I get them from Baer Co. they just scew on have the level bolts one on each side, but also have the braw bolt in them. The problem is in the tight situations getting the room to put glue in becaouse not being able to lift one side. However this weekend I did try some titebond glue tyhat has an extended work time before it sets. Gave me a enough time to let it run in the joint and still level the seam. It was for family so I will find out if have any problems that is for sure. I have done some without glue and not had a problem, but was curious if any one else has. This system has given me the ability to get good level seams and adjust them later if they are not quite right.
Reuben
Reuben,
I know the fasteners to which you refer. I have some, but haven’t used them for years.
You’d have the same problem with ball-type fasteners.
I have a question, though. When these tops are locked in wall to wall, or wall to cab, do you have an end splash on at least one locked in end?Tom
Tom,
I at this point do not offer coved splashes. I use smart clips to lock on a set on splash. I try to discourage home owners from side splash aginst cabinets. Just my personal feel of loosing nice look of that panel. Hope this answered the question.
Reuben
With smart clips you can install the splash after the top
goes in but if it were an attached or coved splash you would be convincing your
customers to use the side splashes just so you could get the top in.I tell my clients that with a side splash you will get a
better seal and you wont damage the wood panel by continually wiping the countertop
in that area.
shane
Reuben,
Similar to Shane’s comment – we tell customers that are wall to wall, wall to cab, or cab to cab that an end splash will allow a better fit. The reason I asked is that, if you use an attached splash, you could pull the scribe and it will give you your room for glue. This will work with smart clips, but will be a bit tougher.I like the idea behind smart clips and have occasionaly used them commercially. I am not a fan of any kind of set on laminate splashes residentially, though.
Tom
Reuben,
Because, almost by definition, you are providing a passageway for water to eventually make its way to the substrate. Smart clips hold tighter than most other set-on forms, but it will work its way loose soon enough.Forgive me, I am a custom cove guy who thinks even attached splashes aren’t good enough. Water access to the substrate is death to laminate tops, and we do what we can to stop it.
Tom
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