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http://www.moen.com/shared/pdf/6600sp.pdf
This was the faucet that was used on one of our recent job. They specified an 815 Corian bowl in a 21″ front-to-back vanity cabinet. This is nothing new, but I did place the sink cutout so the overflow tube would be right up against the back of the face frame. This would’ve allowed plenty of room for a typical faucet. We were not given any info about the faucet when we went to do the template. We received a model # after the top was already fabricated. I printed out the PDF file, and gave it to the shop so they could drill the hole. They drilled the hole at a normal setback from the sink flange to allow room for the mounting hardware. After the job was installed, we got a call that the lift rod for the drain stopper is hitting the tile when it is pulled up (out). Someone from our company went out to the jobsite, and found out that there is no way you can fit that faucet in behind the bowl with the stopper pulled out even if the faucet hole is drilled up into the sink flange. The customer won’t change faucets, and now the design center wants us to eat the cost of material and labor for making a new top with a smaller sink.What do you all think? I can see where this may be our fault if it was a retail job, and our sales people were the ones who spec’d the bowl (and faucet), but, in this case, I think the blame is with the design center.
Anyways, whether it is our fault or not and/or we end up remaking the top for nothing, I hope this helps someone to avoid the problem we’ve had. This just reinforces the reason why all info should be available at the time of the template. With the ever-shortening lead times, there isn’t time for waiting around for faucet info before fabricating the tops.
Have a good one,
SethBending the lift rod probably won’t work. I have had this problem with single lever faucets that have the rod behind the single lever. I steer my customers away from these. When this happened to me we were able to bore additional holes and change faucets.
Norm:
You know I love you man, but I’d sure as heck try to bend that lift rod before replacing anything.
And don’t send a kid to do it either. And bring a laminate trimmer with a straight bit to try to scooch ‘er up before replacing too, if the bent rod trick doesn’t work. To hell with the sink flange, shim it.
Joe
ah crap, I just fabbed 2 vanities and they have a faucet that looks just like that, except it is a Delta. Will install today
ugghhhhhh
Seth:
Bad news. I just did some cipherin’ with my morning coffee.
The distance between the back of the front cabinet rail to the wall is 20 1/2″. Subtract the 15 1/2″ of the 815 and you’re left with 4 3/4″. (The 815 is 16 1/2″, but you said you mounted the overflow all the way to the back of the front rail, placing the front 1″ flange over the rail.) Take a 1/2″ off the 4 3/4″ for tile thickness and you’ve got 4 1/4″ from flange to tile in which to set a 2 1/2″ faucet escutcheon and have the 2 1/2″ clearance to the splash AS SPECIFIED IN BOLD in the manufacturer’s critical dimesion link. You only have 1 3/4″.
You admit your salespeople specified the faucet and bowl. They did so without doing the calculations I just did, therefore you are responsible. The manufacturer warned you in big bold letters.
The only other way out I can see is to router out the back of the sink rail 5/8″, pull the top forward and seam 5/8″ onto the back. You’re still an 1/8″ short of 2 1/2″, but I think it will work. I’ve had to do this to bail out an employer once or twice. It sucks, but it beats replacement.
Joe
If they are working with someone from Moen to get cheap/free faucets because it’s a “design center” have them contact the sales rep to see if there is a different faucet that they can use.
If they are not working with a certain brand and they just happened to pick out that faucet, see if they can return it for a faucet that has a drain pull that wasn’t designed by an “artist.”
From now on sand all the backs of the sink flanges to allow for more room and drill the faucet hole closer to the bowl.
I had that same issue before and was given the faucet before we started the job so fortunalty we didnt need to redue anything.
Steve:
Your idea is good, but you have to watch the size of the faucet escutcheon. A 2 1/2″er, like Seth’s, is only gonna get so close to the radius edge of the sink, whether the flange is sanded or not.
Joe
Posted By Seth Emery on 27 Oct 2009 08:14 PM
What do you all think? I can see where this may be our fault if it was a retail job, and our sales people were the ones who spec’d the bowl (and faucet), but, in this case, I think the blame is with the design center.
Anyways, whether it is our fault or not and/or we end up remaking the top for nothing, I hope this helps someone to avoid the problem we’ve had. This just reinforces the reason why all info should be available at the time of the template. With the ever-shortening lead times, there isn’t time for waiting around for faucet info before fabricating the tops.
Have a good one,
SethSeth:
Let me correct my third post. I thought you said your salespeople did spec the bowl and faucet, they didn’t.
However, that doesn’t change the fact that as the fabricator, you had an obligation to check and then tell the designer their design wouldn’t work as specified.
I hope I don’t sound too harsh, but I told David the truth when he didn’t check his plastic laminate finish and had a do-over. You asked, I replied. Sugar coating is extra.
Joe
P.S.:
Please keep us posted as to how this is resolved.
What Bulls**t. I just installed 2 vanities and the faucet was made (it was a Delta) almost like the one in question. When the tube is pulled out the back, it hits the backsplash.
I just told the homeowner sorry they picked out a poorly designed faucet. They will have to pick out something else Or I will have to rebuild the top and CUSTOM FIT the top to the faucet at their expense.
When there are a gazillion faucets out there to chose from, It is the manufacturers resposibilty to place on the front the box, WILL NOT WORK WITH MOST STANDARD COUNTERTOPS!!. This faucet would not work with the old cameo top I took out either.
I ALWAYS have the customer buy a new faucet before the job is ever started. I tell them if they don’t, I will drill the holes after I get on the job for a fee, otherwise it is free.
Joe, If noone told Seth about the faucet, then what he gave them is what they got. It is the design centers fault for not informing the Fab, a top had to be custom made for the faucet.
Thanks everyone for the responses. I am attaching a PDF of how tight of a fit this is.
Steve – we’ll keep that (sanding off the back of the sink) in mind if we run into a tight fit again, but it wouldn’t have worked with this faucet since you need 5″ clearance from the roundover to the backsplash/tile/wall.
Joe – sorry, I think my run-on sentence caused the confusion about who specified the sink and faucet. No, you weren’t too harsh. I don’t think we could’ve got away with bending the lift rod on this one. I agree that someone should’ve questioned the note about the “2-1/2″ minimum for lift rod”, but it would have made no difference because the damage was already done when the design center/customer didn’t give us the faucet info before we needed to get the top fabricated to have it installed in time. It would’ve saved some install time though. Maybe the answer is going to have to be that we won’t cut out or fabricate tops until we have all info.
Kelsey – I hope you don’t have any trouble with your recent installs with the Delta faucets. I just did a drawing today with a Delta faucet where the lift rod protruded past the escutcheon more than normal. It went up at an angle though, not straight back like this Moen faucet.
I overheard that the job is going to be redone, but I’m not sure at whose cost or of the other details yet. I’m sure this issue is going to be the source of many questions and uncertainties in the future (e.g., what to do when the customer hasn’t picked out their faucet yet, and wants you to drill the hole(s) at install).
Have a nice evening,
SethKelsey,
Sorry to hear that – I was typing during your post. You bring up a good point about the faucets not working with most standard countertops – not sure why they design them this way. Must have to do with that stinkin’ commercial where they say “I want you to design your kitchen around this (faucet)”. To me, it’s kind of like changing your clothes to match your belt instead of putting on a different belt that matches your clothes.
I hope it turns out well for you,
SethSeth, It didn’t. The faucet was too close to the backspash for that faucet. I stood firm…. I joked about designing around that faucet, but my quote did not state that.
They are going to look for a new faucet. Dozens will work.
Sometimes you say “no” and listen…..
This thread must be a bad omen. I just ran into the same problem today with granite vanity tops and Moen faucets, three of them. This wasn’t a single handle faucet but it did have the rod going at an angle toward the splash. It was 3cm granite with a 3cm splash. I had to race to the store to buy three more while my plumber had lunch. Unless the rod comes straight up I’m not going to try them anymore.
Another problem, same faucets, the threaded mounts were too short for 3cm granite, at least if you tried to use the plastic mounting nuts they provide because the threads on the nuts didn’t start for almost a 1/4″. My plumber wasn’t happy with me today.
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