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We are starting to template and install our own quartz tops. We have arrangements with fabricators already wherein we send them the dxf file to make the tops. We did the zodiaq training- but it didnt quite fill the cup of knowledge for us.
What necessary tools should we get for installation? What about cold tops for seaming? We are thinking we are going to use the Integra adhesive – any thoughts on that?
Any help from my fellow experts would be great!
Tammy
Tammy:
If these three pages don’t answer all your questions, post ’em and I’ll take my best shot:
http://www.solidsurfacegeeks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=348&start=0
Joe
Yea, I’m with Joe on this one.
I like the Integra glue idea for the quartz. I think you will end up with more consistent seams.
Somebody help me out on this one. Advantages / Disadvantages? I am sure we could probably get better color matches, but we don’t have much problem now.Our quartz seams are CNC cut and extremely tight. We use K-bond and a tinting kit now.
Seems like it would be a inventory nightmare since we only do 2-4 quartz kitchens per week.
In other words, as Matt states, a good quality transparent knifegrade (and K-Bond is one of them) and a 10 count color kit will match anything you choose to. Let us not overly complex the process.
Tammy,
prepare yourself for a heapin’ helpin’ of frustration and hair-tearing!
Apart from the learning curve your fitters will have and the problems and mistakes that will arise from that, you have now placed your reputation in the hands of a third party. There will be arguments as to who is responsible when the fabrication is wrong, was it the information you supplied or was it the fabrication process.
Therefore before sorting your staff and tooling I would advise sorting your relationship with your stone fabricator. Get the processes and communication in place. Stone companies have different ideas about tolerances and what constitutes acceptable quality to those you may have and by definition those that your long term customers have come to expect from your company. Make sure they understand your expectations and keep hammering away at them until they will not dare give you anything substandard.
Regarding joints and Integra: I would suggest that you do not attempt tight joints. Make it easy on yourselves for the first year. When you have the experience then consider Integra, or if using ZODIAQ, Corian adhesive. I believe that if you use either of these adhesives you will have to have joints that are as well cut as Corian joints and you may also have to get involved in top polishing which may be difficult for anyone just getting into stone. Aim instead for consistent granite standard joints a few mm wide. That way any chipping or unevenness in the joint edge will not be a problem.
The main tool I’d recommend would be a set of Gorilla Clamps. Otherwise a grinding tool, manual lifting aids and a strong team.
Patrick
Tammy,
If I remember correctly, you are selling your Photo-Top? If you are going to do quartz, I would re-think that idea. Scribing stone sucks 10x worse than scribing anything else.
Plus, when its that damned heavy, I only like to carry it into the house once.
Tammy:
If you’ve sold the Photo-Top, refund their money and get it back. You are grinding away profits if you’re scribing stone.
I agree with everything Patrick said except his fourth paragraph. In these days of vicious competition, you need to exploit every opening and the gaps in granite seams are wide enough to drive an install truck through. Pound hard here.
I recently took some potential customers to look at a seam I did with Integra and Gorillia Grip clamps on Cambria Sutton. You had to feel for the seam, carefully, because you sure couldn’t see it very well. I haven’t sold this job yet, but the only possible thing a granite guy could impress these customers with would be an incredibly low price, because his seams aren’t going to do it.
Raising the bar,
Joe
Not that I know squat about estone or granite, but I believe someone told me that a joint in either has to be a certain millage for strength, I am wrong?
Joe, Dave, et al,
Assuming everyone uses an adhesive that is strong and will do the job, is there a huge difference when using a solid surface type adhesive versus an epoxy or “knife grade” (if that is what Dave was refering to)?
Norm,
I don’t know what kind of minimum you might be referring to, but like I said, ours are machined on both sides on the CNC, so they are tight.
But what you do is back bevel the seam with a hand grinder, careful not to touch the top of the seam, (stay back about 1/4″) Open up that sucker at least 1/16″ on each side and you will have 1/8″ of adhesive packed in that sucker most of the way through. We also stab the stone a couple of times with the blade of the grinder parallel to the face of the top, thus creating two or three adhesive biscuit joints within a 25″ seam.
If you need an example of the relative strength of the joint, try getting one apart…….
Tom M wrote
Joe, Dave, et al,
Assuming everyone uses an adhesive that is strong and will do the job, is there a huge difference when using a solid surface type adhesive versus an epoxy or “knife grade” (if that is what Dave was refering to)?
Tom:
If the guys at Integra told me to make seams with peanut butter cookie dough, I’d probaby do it. Doug Turner, President of Integra, has spent a career in adhesives, so I didn’t have to.
I think production companies should be particularly wary of “mix your own on the job”. I’m being serious, but you’d be amazed at the prevelance of color blindness in men as opposed to women. Your gambling five or ten grand everytime Jimmy Install mixes up a batch of home brew. Why wouldn’t Jimmy just add more catalyst so he could get over to his girlfriend’s faster? Haven’t we learned that “more is better” here? The color looked like a match to Jimmy.
So you gamble your five or ten large every time. I’ll spend less than 1% at Integra making sure the only thing Jimmy needs to know is purge, bleed, clean, glue and clamp. His girlfriend and my callbacks can wait together forever.
Joe
Joe, you simply have no idea what your talking about. Nobody is gambling squat. While Integra makes a fine adhesive, in the world of stone & e-stone, knife grade and color kits are the norm. Always have been and will continue to be.
I have never…ever heard a customer say they mixed the color in and lost a “5 or 10 grand job” Never. Simply ludicrous. And for lamination, a quality A & B epoxy works like a charm.
You also assume that there is a “Jimmy” doing this work in every shop. There is not. Quality guys that know how to do it.
Well,
I don’t know squat about the complexities of adhesive, and pre colored and premixed has a time saving aspect to it. I have to say, though, we have always colored our laminate fill custom and it seems to make a diofference.
So far, we are custom coloring our estone joint adhesive. I keep hearing about using solid surface type glue on stone and estone joints. Is the difference between these glues and the “knife grade” glues not all that much? Why isn’t there a consensus on this?
Signed,
Confused in Ct
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