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Whoops….yours are coming Kelsey.
Look, I DO NOT discount anyones sanding methods or choice of brand. If it works for you and your’re achieving the finish desired,and most importantly, making money then keep on keepin on. I only suggest what I see working for the majority. That does not make the minoritys methods wrong. Like I’ve stated in the past, 2 shops across the street from each other probably have 2 differant sanding methods. I’ve seen it countless times. I also see shop A hire a guy away from shop B and the guy has no clue as to their sanding methods and wants to bring his way to that shop. That usually muddies up the waters real good.
Look at this months issue of Surface Fabrication Magazine. The company that won Best Overall Design? One of our local customers. Not a day went by that ol Gene the fabricator was not in our shop discussing methods for this and methods for that as it relates to that project. He built it, we just made suggestions on achieving the desired finish above and beyond what he would normally do. He took #1.
(Edit by Andy – Admin) I have been teaching sanding seminars for years, not only at the Solidsurface Expo, but for Avonite, Florenata, and ITEC, when your sanding credentials become as respected as mine I will listen to you. I can teach sanding procedures for any Brand or any method, I have done them all. I know what works and what doesn’t and it doesn’t matter to me if a fabricator dry sands or wet sands I can still teach them how to achieve an excellent finish. As for the factory finish maybe you should do a little research before you open you mouth this is not 1987 anymore, besides let’s be a little wise, even if the factory finish was 180g or 80µ would not 60µ be the next sanding procedure.
Happy Holidays,
Dani
KC,
I agree with you. Pay a little more for a highly refined product and you will save much greater cost in labor to achieve a great looking finish. Sandpaper cost is a very small proportion of the cost to finish a sheet of material. No fabricator ever spends $50 on sandpaper to sand out a sheet of solidsurface, but they could easily spend $50 in labor if the sheet was not sanded correctly.
I have had to refinish countless high end jobs done by large shops, what a mess. Their claim to fame was there Guru $$$ sandpaper salesman told them how to finish. It is all about how much sandpaper can I sell you and if you spend over $150 I will include a free flight jacket. Why is it they are always giving away a free gift, if the product is so great why not give away more sandpaper?
Happy Holidays KC, I am enjoying the laughs also
Dani
Darn, I missed that last part about Dani “not selling sandpaper to make a living”. No Dani, you sell PVC sprinkler parts formed in to clamps that I’ve NEVER seen in ANY shop I’ve been in. Although, in your little contest about a free dollar 99 you state something to the effect of “for those of you not using them and they are few” LOL LOL
Can I enter the contest as my “creative way” of using them would be for earrings!
This site AINT ISSFA !
Dave said:
“…you would realise that 100 micron (150g) is an absolute must as a 1st step.”
Dave, would you agree that the folks at DuPont, the inventors and original patent holders on solid surface, may have a clue as to what is and/or isn’t a good sanding procedure? Their preferences seem to align with Dani’s more than yours. Hey, don’t believe me, read
‘em yourself:
http://www.corian.com/corian/documents/pdf/finishcorian.pdf
“Quite frankly, I don’t care how many seminars you’ve taught.”
You may not care but I and many others do. Dani was at the first solid surface show and has probably been to every one since. He has graciously shared his knowledge with all who have asked, in a booth, class, seminar or bulletin board and continues to do so. His only compensation for these efforts has been the gratitude of fabricators like me. We are collective in our debt. You seem like a nice enough guy Dave, but you appear to be a relative newcomer to us, despite your twenty two years in the business.
“May I suggest that as a onesy, twosy top fabricator, you have no idea what it takes for a large fabrication shop to ramp up for a 200 top order.”
Dave, may I suggest you read the other posts before you type:
Dani posted:
“I received 17 sheets of Hi-Macs, no Hi-Macs is not made in Michigan, for a job the end of this November and the factory finish was fantastic.”
A 17 sheet job does not a “onesy, twosy” fabricator make. If anyone knows how to crank ‘em out the door efficiently, it’s Dani Homrich. er talkin’ through yer hat, Dave.
“No Dani, you sell PVC sprinkler parts formed in to clamps that I’ve NEVER seen in ANY shop I’ve been in.”
Again, I suggest you read the other posts before you type and get out more. I just read another positive testimonial about Dani’s polishing system on the fabnet which I couldn’t find again. I use his clamps and here’s another guy that does:
http://www.thefabricatornetwork.com/Forum/tabid/54/forumid/2/threadid/4852/threadpage/2/scope/posts/Default.aspx
I’d post more examples, but I wouldn’t want to make this a fifty page thread.
Dani has invented a cove sanding pad that works terrific, I think the patent is pending. Of course he holds the patent for the popular and revolutionary Dani Clamps. How many patents do you own, Dave?
I thought so,
Joe
Dave,
You have never been in my shop, even my old one, yes the office but not the shop. My guys were reluctant to use the Dani Clamps, but after a couple times realized that alot of th things we can clamp with them you just cant do with other clamps. We dont use them on everything, but for coves and sinks they cant be beat. My guys find more things to use them on every day.
As far as sanding and finishing goes, we are going to be one of the big guys in SW Florida soon, but I am familiar with both small operations and large. For the large guys in our area, most of there finishing sucks, period. We just got a very large contractor away from one the big “C” fabricators in our area becuase of his finishing and service record. The contractors other fabricator could not handle darker colors which is what alot of his customers were leaning to. We repaired a job with a crack and refinished the entire job properly as a free sample two weeks ago, now we do all his work. While it was just a matte finish for a dark color it looked much better than those made by the other company. Much of what I learned about finishing came from Dani either directly or from someone that learned from him years ago, and will put my work up against any body’s. These big shops are good with glacier white but give them blackberry ice or nocturne and they shut down.
Have a Merry Christmas every one,
John Cristina
QUOTES FROM FEDSAWDAVE
“No Dani, you sell PVC sprinkler parts formed in to clamps that I’ve NEVER seen in ANY shop I’ve been in.”
“Quite frankly, I don’t care how many seminars you’ve taught.
Wow, insulting an innovative industry leader 2 days before Christmas?
I believe the picture above just shows what one mans innovation has done for the Solid Surface industry. It really saddens me when a salesman insults another product or especially a person.
I’m really sorry you feel that way Dave.
KC
Hi Guys,
While things got a little spirited here in this thread, I think we all recognize that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and as Andy has pointed out, there are different niches within our markets that require different approaches.
For example, Dani is no doubt the Sanding Guru, and has spent more time than anyone else I know looking into the fine points of technique and product. He markets to a discerning and demanding customer base. On the other hand, our business serves customers who provide multi-family housing for government projects, where a “perfect” job for them is one that goes in fast and under budget (read: competitive bid projects.) Their tenants will turn over every two years, and they really just want something that will last.
I think what we’ve been reading is really one viewpoint from a custom fabricator’s point of view vs. a supplier who has a range of customers who serve all different types of niches. Neither Dani nor Dave is at the helm of an evil empire. I have learned much from Dani about finishing, and I have absolutely benefited from Dave’s excellent customer service, flying monkeys notwithstanding.
On this Christmas Eve, I’d like to thank All Of You for giving me something interesting to read, and a place to belong. Dani, thanks for sharing your knowledge. Dave, thanks for helping me out when I was in a bind. Everyone else, thanks for your continued camaraderie.
A little spirited is an understatement.
Does everyone remember back in the day,
Respect was something given, not taken away.
Public ridicule was saved for but a few,
Taking the higher ground is how I was raised, how about you?
Living in an age where rudeness prevails,
Will result in a society that fails.
My father would surely roll over in his grave,
If he saw how “Men” are beginning to behave.
Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night.
Dani and Dave,
Let me be perfectly clear here. This is not a forum for you two to have a pissing contest. Because you are vendors you will be judge to a higher standard than other members. DISRESPECT will not be tolerated and is not doing either of you any good.
I like both of you and respect what you offer to us fabricators. Don’t let your disagreement cloud your judgement when you decide to post. Take a step back and reevaluate if this is really beneficial to the fabricators that read this board.
Thanks for your participation and Merry Christmas.
Andy
How many “patents do I hold” Joe? None, but thanks for asking. Patents aren’t worth a hill of beans if you don’t make money on them.
I’m so glad you brought up the Dupont sanding methods. I remember back in the day when the companies representing Duponts solid surface tried to strong arm fabricators in to using NOTHING but what said distributor offered as “methods”. Buy this or we won’t sell you the sheet goods. Do it this way or we’ll tell the big brother on you. Funny thing happened on the way to the kitchen…other solid surface products were introduced. Differant methods, differant procedures. It’s called evolving Joe.
But, thanks for being ever condescending. BTW, glad you never “heard of me”. Quite frankly, I’ve never “heard of you”.
Uh, Dave, most of us consider Joe to be a little brutal at times, but usually correct. For Joe, he was kinda gentle with you, consider it a compliment. Actually, all three of you share a few characteristics, bluntness, an inability to suffer fools, and ambition. Probally why there is friction……..
Reminds me of a good story. Once I walked into a bar a little earlier than normal, wanted to practice on the tables a little before the pool tournament. Kinda single minded about it, so I breezed by four people standing near the door without really looking, three women, one guy friend of mine. Two of the women were dance partners, the other one, well, we couldn’t stand each other. She was a stuck up bitch and I reminded her of it often.
So, three of the four start griping about my behaviour, “thanks for saying hi, Al”, that kind of stuff. I just made a U-turn, gave the stuck up bitch a big hug and told the others that the only way I knew how to deal with them was to say hello to the only one that wasn’t whining and bitching.
Dani, Dave, enough. No profit in this. Both of you are well respected and well liked. Don’t throw that away by asking any of us to choose sides. When we step in and defend someone being attacked, don’t take offense, we all will do the same for both of you. If you guys want to thump on each other, do it like the congressmen do and be nice about it. Call each other “esteemed colleges”, use some big words like “dissimulator” or “cozener”, perhaps “dissolute” or “effete” would be usefull if not accurate. First one to get pissed, loses.
Andy, how about we pretend none of this happened and you clean this thread up a little, please.
Dave:
At the risk of readers thinking I’m beating this to death, I cannot let your misquoting of me stand uncorrected:
FEDSAWDAVE wrote
BTW, glad you never “heard of me”. Quite frankly, I’ve never “heard of you”.In fact, what I said was: “You seem like a nice enough guy Dave, but you appear to be a relative newcomer…”
You can avoid making this mistake again by using the board’s quote thingy and by, as I’ve previously mentioned, reading and comprehending the posts to which you are responding.
I meant what I said, Dave. You do seem like a nice enough guy. I regret that you interpreted my remark as “condesention”. While I will not let what needs to be said go unspoken, I admit struggling with the tone of those rebuttals and appreciate having it brought to my attention. I would love to assure you it won’t happen again, but I would be lying.
We’re both going to the show, Dave. I’ll look you up and buy you a drink. Hopefully, we can hear of each other in person.
Sincerely,
Joe Corlett
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