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Posts
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Believe it or not, guys, I didn’t come here to pick a fight with Al. I’ll say what I think one more time, and then maybe just let this go.It appears to me that solid surface suffers from a lack of a simple, straightforward identity in the marketplace. To the average consumer it’s defined more by what it isn’t, than by what it is. The fashionable, upscale choice is granite. The budget choice is laminate. The new, high-tech choice is quartz. The retro choice is soapstone or tile. The ultramodern choice is concrete. Solid surface is just “the other one”, without a ready label in the mind of the public. As I’ve stated here before, I think that a new marketing effort on the part of solid surface fabricators should have as its core purpose the creation of a positive identity for the product.On a related note, and this may well be an even more difficult issue, I think the name of the product is a problem. John Q. Public says “Corian” when he means solid surface, just like he says “Kleenex” when he means tissue. To market a class of products where most people don’t recognize what you’re calling it is very difficult. Whether it remains “solid surface” or becomes some other term, creating name recognition has got to be a priority too. I’ve described my process for countertop shopping on another thread, and I said that I did lots of “googling”. I doubt I ever googled the term “solid surface”.I think you’ve got a great product. I bought it myself just a few months ago. Whether it’s the SSA site, or any other marketing effort on your part, I think you should try to figure out a positive message for that product and make that positive message the bulk of what you have to say. It’s got to be short and simple and memorable. It is completely appropriate to provide a favorable comparison to competing products, but even those need to center on the message that “solid surface is better because of X”, and not just “the competing product is bad because of X”.You may not want to hear from me on this. I know at least one of you doesn’t.
I’ll try to just lurk a bit, and not get in your way.Dave, good luck to the Bulls tonight.revans1,
I disagree with you on solid surface selling on the negative (dominantly). The vast majority of ads in the magazines, etc. are solid surface as great material, not as alternative to stone (which is evil, and whose mother dresses it funny). I think you may be looking more at the web and forums more than other forms of publication. The forum problem solid surface has is that most of the queries about couintertops seem to be stone centered, which forces comparisons to the negative. I could be wrong here, and I know you’re giving a personal perspective, but there it is.
Your point about the generic is wonderfully reminiscent of the Formica trademark battles of the late 70’s and early 80’s. Lenny can give an insider’s perspective on this, and maybe Matt D, if he was involved back then. Basically, Formica was about to lose it’s right to its name, as the term had become so ubiquitous with laminate that it could no longer mean a single brand. Kleenex was the comparison product. It was a fascinating window on business law, as I’m not sure anything like it had ever come before the court before. Formica won in the long run, but we guys in the trade were stunned that it even got that far. It’s pretty scary when you can be so successful you actually lose exclusive right to your own name.
Solid Surface is about the best I can come up with as a generic. It doesn’t help when other materials want to link up and use the term when it doesn’t apply.
Thanks for the comment.
We talk about this every so often alot of us can do with out the words, i myself always had to explain what SS is, now i just sau would like a piece of Avonite, its like Corian then i go into the name brands..people still call all solid surface Corian and most people on other sites still think Dupont is the mother ship who produces all SS….just yesterday i really had a lady freaked out, she thought i was a scam artist, She is in canada and wants me to do some interesting counterwork and looking for a color that I said “oh yeah, that is Formica Solid Surface”…man did she think i was crazy, I had to explain about formica is a brand,,,I just sent them the link…i got the job but almost got wacked by the terminolgy…I wish we could call it one word myself…i also hate the word fabricator….That is something i did when the cops caught me red handed I then became a Fabricator…Solid Surface is what i think we are stuck with, and the thing i like about solid surface is it.s not just flo flat horizontal surfaces, people are always going to have different opinions about the material, i like a punk rock band called Dropkick Murphys, they are Irish bagpiping punkers who i just love…my point is I dont like every song they sing some they can just throw in the garbage because it infects the rest of the songs…the same goes with the cheap brands of “SOLID SURFACE”, hence not all Stone is superior Huh?…thats the dealio right there…get rid of the shi* samples and our products might not have so many negative complaints.
Gene, I hear ya! I have gone to say Himacs BRAND solid surface, Formica BRAND solid surface ect. Bag pipe Punkers?
Yeah, David, they played locally a short time ago.
Gene, did you ever listen to the Pogues?
Howzabout Wolfstone?
The SSA site has a more important purpose than convincing consumers, giving info to solid surface fabricators to counter the lies used in marketing by competing materials.
This site has no problem bashing solid surface, while listing only two downsides to granite, high cost and sealing.
And on a prior page,
“What are the differences between granite and solid surface materials for countertop ?
While granite is a natural, igneous material created underneath the earth’s surface, solid surface materials such as Corian and Avonite are man-made, using acrylic or polyester resins.Granite has an advantage over durability, maintenance, design and costs, along with many others”Read the original at the link, note the use of capital letters.
Now here is an honest stone shop. How refreshing….
check em out, they have alot of rowdy songs, they are just good hearted music. bTW the bagpipes are my favorite instrument, I grew up going over to new york city in the Bowery going to CBGB’s and The Rirz…seen alot of Punk bands and rockers for 2 bux at the sunday hardcore matinee…it was great…but anyway i love this band they have a lot of blue collar songs for the working man, etc…then throw in the pipes…man i was in…i also love the crowd you jump off the stage and they catch ya.,..i tried that a clapton concert and busted my ass, they parted like the red sea. click on below and listen to Amazing grace
Tom forgot i seen wolfstone and didn’t even know it til it was over only heard a little bit of pogues, I was Black flag, Cro mags, Adrenalin Od,i almost wrote down the names of some of those bands that ya cant post…Dead kennedys and Social Distortion anywa y i am getting riled up gotta go now and check the other threads before bed.
Oh, Man!
You went to CBGB’s? Tom Verlaine and Television, Blondie (when they rocked), The Ramones, Talking Heads, Sousie Quattro?
I am depressed.
Next your gonna tell me that you threw a bottle at Iggy.
What is it about the Celts that they can write working man music like no other? Wolfstone had the one about work and jobs leaving the port town (“the way of all good things”), and the Pogues had so many, including “Dirty Ol’ Town”:
“I’d like to take me a big sharp axe.
Shining steel, tempered in the fire.
I’ll cut you down, like a dead old tree.
Dirty Ol’ Town, Dirty Ol’ Town…”
I watched the entire video and I have to side with the contractor based on what I know. Here is why. People assume the word “Granite” means expert and perfect fabrication and installation. It doesn’t and the contractor had no legal obligation to that homeowner. The only obligation they have is to be honest and do the very best job they can.
Do you all remember your first countertop job? I would be willing to bet that today you can make a top that is better. This doesn’t meant that the first one is bad, just might not be as good.
Maybe the Huligar guy could do a better job, so what? That doesn’t mean Old Stone didn’t do their very best. This is a fact of human nature. We all possess different skill level and that is the way it goes.
Granite is natural and even when we tell our customers there will be little pits in the material, they still complain after it is installed. Not sure why they didn’t hear us before the purchase, but they want to blame us for not informing them. I guess we all have a bit of selective hearing.
Ravens,
Great advice. I think we should all take a second to listen to Randy. Even if he is wrong (not saying he is) we should listen because he is giving his honest perspective of the industry. Perception is everything in sales and marketing. His advice can make you money.
Just my thoughts, I could be wrong.
Do you all remember your first countertop job?
What, when I was thirteen?
The only thing I remember from back then was Eileen Matthews.
*sigh*
Andy,
That is pretty close to my take. This video shows a top that isn’t that bad, but it did not meet the consumers overblown expectations for a granite top. Now, quick, who is responsible for overselling the product?
This lady went with one of the higher priced bids if I remember correctly and researched the material and the fabricator, who came recommended. In most states, quality that is to be delivered is average short of some explicit marketing claim or contract language to the contrary. Our law in Oklahoma is based upon a lawsuit over a shipment of sardines back in the 1920’s, and the state supreme court said that average quality is all that is required by law. So the fabricator is basically guilty of overpromising, properly educating his customer on expectations, or sadly enough, not re educating the customer from what she had heard about granite before she came into his shop.
That said, this video can be used to drive home the point that granite is a very risky purchase. I found the source and am going to link to the video this weekend, perhaps explain some of the details from fabricators point of view.
In my research, I have came across a field of study that I was unaware of, risk conveyance, or explaining risks to people in such a way that they don’t retreat into denial. It is interesting and might be useful to make better material waiver sign off sheets.
al wrote
The SSA site has a more important purpose than convincing consumers, giving info to solid surface fabricators to counter the lies used in marketing by competing materials.
That describes a perfectly reasonable alternative strategy to creating a site for consumers. If that’s the way you’re going (and I recognize that the site is under construction), then I would think you’ll want to change the lead sentence: “Solid Surface Alliance was formed for only one reason, to provide consumers information on solid surface counter top, as well as the other uses of solid surface.” If it’s meant to be a site by fabricators for fabricators, then I’d say that much of my “criticism” would be irrelevant. I note a difference on another SSA page, which says: “Solid Surface Alliance was formed for only one reason, to provide support for the solid surface industry.” Both pages come up high on a Google search, so it seems to me that something should change somewhere, just for the sake of coherence.
Thanks, Andy, for your reception to my remarks. I appreciate your post.
Tom, I’m sure you’re right about most manufacturer advertising being of the positive sort. I don’t recall seeing much, but I readily admit that I don’t often look in the kinds of publications that they’d want to spend their money on in an ad campaign. Jeff Gordon has a little “Corian” sticker on the back of his #24 Dupont Chevy that currently leads the Nascar standings (not that I pay attention to that sort of thing either
) but other than that I personally don’t recall seeing such an ad. My point in this thread is less about the “selling the negative” than it is about the need for solid surface to reclaim its own clear spot in the countertop landscape. This is my perception, as an outsider. For a long time, almost everybody in the “mainstream” had laminate or ceramic tile. Solid surface appeared, and became the single readily-available choice for a “premium” top. In the last X number of years, the marketplace has become crowded with lots of alternatives. Laminate is still there as a biggie, and granite has gotten hot, and quartz along with lots of other lesser competitors have entered the picture. It feels to me like solid surface has gotten lost in the shuffle. It has a risk of becoming a product without a specific and positive identity in the mind of the consuming public.
I certainly don’t know a great deal about the industry, but I do know that Dupont has a quartz product and a branded granite to go with solid surface, and that the Silestone company has a branded granite to go with their quartz product. If the big manufacturers take the position that they just want to sell you a countertop of whatever material you choose, then it would appear to leave you (the independent fabricator) to either get on board with that approach, or to try to take steps yourself to create a demand for solid surface. That can happen one customer at a time as they enter your shop, but I think that approach leaves a lot of the possibilities of modern (especially web-based) marketing “on the table”.
…but I readily admit that I don’t often look in the kinds of publications that they’d want to spend their money on in an ad campaign.
That, in a nutshell is the problem with traditional marketing today. You should chat with Jon about this. He is cutting edge on getting the word out.
Your last paragraph should be pasted on a wall. The unspoken thing that goes along with this is that, once the suppliers spread out, less attention gets paid to any one of the items, and there’s not enough of anything. rather than too much of one.
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