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Posts
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Posted By Steven Nenzel on 04 Jan 2011 03:43 PM
Joe, I know better than to bother discussing anything with you. Your agenda is nothing more than an attempt to show your intellectual superiority (an attempt to hide your own feelings of low self worth). I say this in all seriousness and without disrespect… rather than spending your time taking art courses why don’t you spend some time with a psychologist. It would be money better spent. Every post I’ve seen of yours has and underlying message of “see how knowledgeable and great I am”. They are never intended to help any other but yourself.If your intent was to help with the web site why would you not send a private e-mail? Of course we know why.
Go ahead and respond but I will not visit this thread again. Of course, since your motivation is to show others your vast intellectual superiority, I’m sure you will do them the honor.
Steve:
Thanks for your assessment of my agenda, now let’s take a look at yours.
You want to do everything on this thread except admit that granite stains. Since you have no rebutal to the subject of this thread, granite staining, you try to change the subject to my mental health.
Readers are not as easily fooled as you think Steve. They aren’t falling for your illogical tricks of ad hominem circumstantial, ad hominem (against the person) ad hominem abusive and red herring.
Readers are also unsympathetic to the childish “take my ball and go home” attitude displayed by your “I will not visit this thread again”. Oh, you’ve had your say and that settles it? Right.
My intent was not only to publicly help with your web site but to show that if a person were careless enough to not proofread what they present to the public, what else might they be careless with, such as their claims as to the stainability of granite?
Steve, you’ve made unsubstantiantiated claims as to the stainability and heat resistance of granite and refuse to back them up when given several chances. Readers can see that clearly.
Joe
Posted By Mark Meriaux on 05 Jan 2011 02:38 PM
My good friend Mark Lauzon cooking on granite slabs a few years ago:http://www.stoneadvice.com/gallery/Testing-Resined-Slabs
I don’t recommend this type of abuse on granite, but many varieties are quite capable of withstanding high heat as demonstrated in these photos. (Much higher than other manufactured surfacing options). The term “granite” should not be used as an all-encompassing term for various types of natural stone. Some varieties are notably more fragile than others, both in fabrication and handling, and (I would assume) thermal expansion.
Mark:
Mark Lauzon’s video is entertaining, but that’s about it. It’s like bragging that your car tires are solid rubber and making fun of others because their tires are hollow and full of air. It is a non-issue. When the MIA recommends the use of trivets for natural stone, just as the solid surface manufacturers do, the issue is moot.
I’m sure with enough Pam, I could fry an egg on the hood of my Toyota. Guess what? Toyota dosen’t recommend the hoods of their vehicles for food preparation. Neither do the granite manufacturers.
I’m no scientist, but I can guaran-damn-tee you Mark has fried the plastic resin from that granite into that meat. He’s a helluva fabricator, but he’s no Wolfgang Puck.
Granite has a lot of saleable qualities. It’s hard, shiny and natural among others. Why give the competition a break by making stuff up?
Joe
Posted By Kowboy on 05 Jan 2011 06:55 PM
When the MIA recommends the use of trivets for natural stone, just as the solid surface manufacturers do, the issue is moot.
I’m sure with enough Pam, I could fry an egg on the hood of my Toyota. Guess what? Toyota dosen’t recommend the hoods of their vehicles for food preparation. Neither do the granite manufacturers.
The MIA provides guidelines………not rules or laws………..guidelines. I tried to explain to you that EACH natural stone has unique properties, and that ALL stones can not be held to a single all-encompassing rule. The guidelines are for Du Masses, that can’t or won’t take the time to learn about those unique properties.
Which granite “manufacturers” are you speaking of. Do you know of a new factory that is creating stone?
Now we’re on to talking about resins…….not the point of my post, but I’m certain that you can come up with more info that I can about them. The POINT of the posting was to illustrate that how a stone that had been exposed to extreme heat did not display any visual evidence of failure (i.e. cracks, or changes in the surface finish or coloring). The only visible difference was the meat juices/oils on the unfinished edge of that slab.
Posted By Mark Meriaux on 18 Jan 2011 08:18 AM
Posted By Kowboy on 05 Jan 2011 06:55 PM
When the MIA recommends the use of trivets for natural stone, just as the solid surface manufacturers do, the issue is moot.I’m sure with enough Pam, I could fry an egg on the hood of my Toyota. Guess what? Toyota dosen’t recommend the hoods of their vehicles for food preparation. Neither do the granite manufacturers.
The MIA provides guidelines………not rules or laws………..guidelines. I tried to explain to you that EACH natural stone has unique properties, and that ALL stones can not be held to a single all-encompassing rule. The guidelines are for Du Masses, that can’t or won’t take the time to learn about those unique properties.
Which granite “manufacturers” are you speaking of. Do you know of a new factory that is creating stone?
Now we’re on to talking about resins…….not the point of my post, but I’m certain that you can come up with more info that I can about them. The POINT of the posting was to illustrate that how a stone that had been exposed to extreme heat did not display any visual evidence of failure (i.e. cracks, or changes in the surface finish or coloring). The only visible difference was the meat juices/oils on the unfinished edge of that slab.
Mark:
I agree that the MIA provides guidelines. Furthermore, I would say the MIA is an authority on natural stone. Steve cited the MIA when it came to debunking radon in granite. If the MIA is to be believed as to its findings on radon or the lack thereof, shouldn’t they be believed when it comes to the care of natural stone?
Steve and you don’t get to have it both ways in that when you agree with the MIA, the MIA is an authority and when you don’t the MIA only issues “guidelines”.
I admit to using the term “manufacturers” loosly, but it was obvious I was speaking of stone processors.
I can assure you that Mark completely fried any resin out of the stone (if there was any in it) when he heated it enough to cook his steak in the video. Clearly, vaporizing resin would constitute a change in the finish as far as performance is concerned. The video is dramatic, but completely irrelevant.
You have not disputed my contention that many granite fabricators have experienced granite failures from heat lamps and dishwashers as documented on http://www.stoneadvice. It seems the MIA is giving good advice.
Joe
Posted By Kowboy on 18 Jan 2011 10:33 PM
I admit to using the term “manufacturers” loosely, but it was obvious I was speaking of stone processors.
Obviously.
Posted By Kowboy on 18 Jan 2011 10:33 PM
I can assure you that Mark completely fried any resin out of the stone (if there was any in it) when he heated it enough to cook his steak in the video. Clearly, vaporizing resin would constitute a change in the finish as far as performance is concerned. The video is dramatic, but completely irrelevant.
You have not disputed my contention that many granite fabricators have experienced granite failures from heat lamps and dishwashers as documented on http://www.stoneadvice. It seems the MIA is giving good advice.
You have your suppositions about any changes in the surface finish. I have pics and written notes from the person who was actually there. I know who I trust.
I never have said that all stones will NOT fail or degrade with exposure to heat – some obviously can. I would venture to say that the users, specifiers, or installers did not do enough research about the materials being used in the failed applications. NOT ALL STONE will be affected to the point of failure by heat lamps or heat (or moisture) from dishwashers – some will. Can you embrace that theory?
Posted By Mark Meriaux on 20 Jan 2011 08:14 AM
I never have said that all stones will NOT fail or degrade with exposure to heat – some obviously can. I would venture to say that the users, specifiers, or installers did not do enough research about the materials being used in the failed applications. NOT ALL STONE will be affected to the point of failure by heat lamps or heat (or moisture) from dishwashers – some will. Can you embrace that theory?
Mark:
Yes, I can and I thank you for being a stoner who does not try to oversell their product. I’ve nothing against natural stone but I’m always against hype and misleading customers.
Some stones are more heat resistant than others. However, the MIA has wisely decided that ALL stones should have heat protection.
Joe
I think that rules for fabricators and rules meant for consumers are a bit different. Telling a customer that they need a trivet is wise. How would they determine whether their granite is more or less resistant to heat.
Granite stains, can be affected by heat, has pits and fissures and can crack. There, I said it. All is true but not typical by qualified fabricators.
Just for clarification, yes, I have a shop, employees and sell granite for the past 15 years.
Posted By Kowboy on 20 Jan 2011 08:27 AM
I’ve nothing against natural stone but I’m always against hype and misleading customers.
However, the MIA has wisely decided that ALL stones should have heat protection.
As much as I am against fear mongering and scare tactic selling.
The MIA has decided to publish on the side of conservancy, no doubt a protection against potential lawsuits.
Not bad, but not “the whole truth” either………
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