[Dan Miller]

Jon, I do not know if there are enough fabricators to support a solid surface stand alone magazine. I bet Cygnus knows if there are enough subscriptions and advetisers to turn a profit on a magazine. It isn’t for me to tell them what to do with their magazine, just to vote with my checkbook if it isn’t worth the subscription price or the time to read it. We actually get two magazines, one from a subscription started maybe back in 2002 and they send another copy free of charge. I will still read the thing if it show up, just won’t spend money for it unless it provides relevant information. If they want to pump up readership, do what other trade journals do, send it for free to people in the trade. Still, I question the chasing of advertiser dollars and neglecting the trade you already have, ie, solid surface advertisers. But what do I know, I am just a cabinet maker really, no doubt ignorant of their trade.

I mentioned this in another post, but their were 59 people online in this forum when I logged on. This site is growing like wildfire, partly because of the ability to speak frankly, partly because of the controversy brought up, partly because fabricators know that manufactures are following the posts, responding and participating,but mostly because there is a huge void that no other magazine or association has filled. Kurt brought up ISSFA, whose site is mostly off limits to me since I’m not a member. I know little about the organization but what I have gleaned off the public portions of the website and others have said about it. Why am I not a member? In the begining, money, even today I would rather spend $400 on a sink cut out tool from pinkse or betterly than spend the cash to join issfa. Now after six years of fabricating, I still don’t belong, might someday, but the point is how many fabricators out there don’t join and don’t suscribe to the magazine?

Penny wise and pound foolish? Perhaps, but I’d rather have that sink cut out base for the router!

Kurt mentioned changing market statistics, very true, but like Dani said in another post, some of this is solid surface manufactures not defending their market share or product. Some of it is bad fabricators giving us all an uphill battle in marketing trying to reassure a burned customer to try solid surface again.

Now, will somebody please double check my numbers on ads vs. articles in the latest surfaces magazine? If my numbers are even close to acurate, can we all agree that whether the market is changing or not, solid surface isn’t getting the coverage it used to in the magazine?

Tom, thanks for the compliment but don’t give me credit, I might get in over my head! I learn something from you guys everytime I read the latest posts.

[Rob Picchione]

Just about to log out, 70 online right now, 6 members, 64 visitors. Huge void……….

[Shane Barker]

Too many people on the side lines. The more participation, the better the site. If someone has some input don’t be afraid to share your thoughts.

Shane

[Andy Graves]

First off, I want everyone that posts to this forum that it is greatly appreciated. Also to those that wish to stay on the side lines and just read, you are also a vital part of this website. Don’t feel like you have to post or even register for that matter. Enjoy the FREE site and take from it what you can to grow your business to become more profitable. We do encourage you to post and share your thought.

As for “change”, it is a fact of life. K-Mart, pea green appliances, station wagons, plaid pants, turtle neck shirts, Route 66, horse and buggies, bow and arrows, things change and we have to change with the times. Solid Surface Magazine had a choice to make and they made it. Is a solid surface magazine even relevant anymore without talking about quartz? Maybe it forces us to focus on a product we have seen go from the top of the hill to the bottom in a few short years. Kinda sad, but we can all get behind a really great product like solid surface and make people believe in it again.

With that said, I like quartz, granite, laminate, and solid surface. I think they all have their place in the market.

[Cody TFQ]

Andy, change is unavoidable, but I think the point that Jon made was people might be jumping ship on the surface magazine and my point was they are jumping ship on solid surface fabricators and advertisers.

Your point about focusing on solid surface again is most likely why you and Mory started this site, so I am like you in hoping for people to join together in re positioning our product in the market place. Unfortunetly, advising one product over another means telling the bad points about a product.

As a cabinetmaker and countertop fabricator, I can’t be all things to all people. We didn’t take off till we started focusing strictly on cabinets, then high end cabinets. We placed #36 in the top 100 growing companies of wood magazine this year, that wouldn’t have been possible without us narrowing our endevors to build critical mass of machinery, skilled people and resourse.

If you read the stone sites, they are complaining about solid surface, prefab china stone, and e-stone cutting into their business. They call e-stone the particleboard of the stone industry, solid surface they call plastic, and they call anyone who sells prefab china stone a hack. Of course not all share the opinions, but the majority do. They have to differentiate there product somehow, so the push the negitives of other products.

I am reacting to change by having all products available, but my opinion is still that solid surface makes the best countertop of all products. Still the question remains, can you sell a product against competing products without pointing out the negatives of the other products? Another poster mentioned that the stone magazines are all about stone. Can a magazine be all things to all people?

[Andy Graves]

I guess we will see. I think there can be a solid surface only magazine, but can it be profitable enough to satisfy Cygnus (the owner)? They have determined to that they need to incorporate all surfacing to deliver the information to it’s customer.

[Brett Judd]

And, its advertisers.

[Andy Graves]

What?

[Greg Miller]

I was referring to profitability for Cygnus via their advertisers. I mis read the meaning of your post.

[Kevin Cole]

Dear Friends:

I have read over all of the posts here (several times actually) and thought long and hard about it, wondering if I should comment at all or let the discussion work itself out. At first I thought I would just stay silent, but it has been really bugging me, so I decided to let you know my thoughts on this topic.

I want to address some of the issues that came up, but first off I want to point out that I’m flattered that SF has been the subject of so much debate and I’m honored to be a part of the magazine and be able to serve such a great group of folks as yourselves. I consider you all my friends and I appreciate your support over the years. That being said, here goes…

Change in management – it is true that there have been some management shifts in the past year or so, but it is also true that: 1) Mike Duggan, who founded the magazine and was a co-founder of ISSFA and the Solid Surface International Expo, was an advocate of adding quartz surfacing to the line-up. 2) With Russ Lee as the editor and Joanna Duggan as the Publisher, the magazine did include quartz surfacing and even added the tagline – the journal of the solid surface and stone industries – to the magazine. This addition started in 2003, long before any management change. 3) I have only been involved with the publication for a couple of years, and I cannot honestly call myself a “fabricator,” but in that time I have learned the basics of fabricating solid surface (I took the same solid surface fabrication course as Norm W. who posts here frequently), I have been an industry advocate and have traveled all around the country meeting with solid surface fabricators, interviewing them, spending time in their shops and getting to know what is happening in the industry and who is doing what. I have personally met every board member for ISSFA as well as all staff, I have a great relationship with Mory and Andy, who own this site/discussion board, hell I know most of the people that post here personally – just ask them. I am no Russ Lee, but I do try to be accessible and invite any one of you to call or e-mail me anytime – several of you do just that! And 4) I have done my homework on the solid surface industry and the countertop industry in general, spending hours and hours polling, questioning and researching what is taking place. And with all of these factors in mind, I feel confident saying that I am in touch with this industry and I think there is a place in Surface Fabrication to cover all of the topics we cover without detracting from any one of them.

Many fabricators that used to do only solid surface are working with e-stone and natural stone now. Many stone fabricators are working with e-stone and soid surface now. We don’t have to be all things to all people, just as many things as we can to surface fabricators, and primarily those that make countertops.

Solid Surface vs. Other Coverage – Yes we did broaden our focus in 2006, but our goal has not been to eliminate coverage of solid surface, but to keep covering solid surface while adding information about other things our readers (you, the fabricators) are interested in. As you can imagine, Cygnus spends time researching its market, its readers, and its own magazines, and I want to provide you with some information that we have gathered.

In 2005, the last year we were “SolidSurface” magazine, we published 296 editorial pages in the magazine. According to our internal editorial review, about 30 percent (89 pages) focused exclusively on solid surface, 11 percent (32 pages) focused exclusively on either quartz or natural stone and 59 percent (175 pages) focused on topics that would be inclusive of any of the materials.

In 2006, it looks like we will close at about 400 editorial pages in the magazine (because of our expansion). According to this year’s internal editorial review, extrapolating forward to issues that have not yet been broken out, about 33 percent (132 pages) will focus exclusively on solid surface, 23 percent (92 pages) will focus exclusively on quartz or natural stone, and 44 percent (176 pages) will focus on topics that would be inclusive of any of the materials.

The way I see it, we are actually providing more information exclusively about solid surface related topics (to the tune of 43 pages) and a tiny bit more information that is inclusive of solid surface and others (1 page). And on top of that, we are providing an additional 60 pages exclusively on quartz and natural stone. That means for the same money (we did not raise the subscription rates), you are getting everything you used to get plus more.

Could the Industry Support a Magazine Only About Solid Surface? Yes, there could be. It was called SolidSurface and when it did not cover any quartz or stone topics, it came out 6 times a year, averaged about 54 pages per issue, and provided about 126 pages of editorial exclusively on solid surface – less than you are getting right now.

And looking forward, in 2007, because of the successful expansion of the magazine, Surface Fabrication will be coming out every month, with a projection of 566 editorial pages. If we put this year’s numbers into our look at next year, with 33 percent editorial focusing exclusively on solid surface, that comes out to about 187 pages deicated to the subject and 249 pages not only on solid surface but inclusive of solid surface, with 130 being dedicated exclusively to e-stone or natural stone. And while this is only a projection, it sure seems like this is a great deal for solid surface fabricators as well as those companies that haven’t “drawn a line in the sand” (to quote Kurt) and limited themselves to fabricating only one product.

Al, we appreciate the support you have given us over the years, and we want to keep you as a reader. (And this goes to all of our readers who are wary of the change.) What can I do to change your mind on this?

I want to close with a couple of thoughts, and then I will get off my soapbox and go back to lurking: Do I think solid surface is a great product? Yes I do. But, I also think quartz is a fine product and that natural stone is unsurpassed in beauty when it comes to surfacing. However, what is important is not what I like or what I think, but rather what you, the readers, need information on, what you are doing and thinking, and what your customers like and are buying. And when I keep those things in mind, I feel Surface Fabrication is on the right track. I’m going to keep trying my best to put out there information that I hope can help you, and it is your call how much of it to read or if you want to read it at all.

Thanks for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,

Kevin Cole

Editor

Surface Fabrication – a magazine for all surface fabricators.

[Andy Graves]

Kevin,

I hope my post did not lead you to beleive that I do not like the magazine. When I first started reading the magazine it was all about solid surface and that’s it. All was new to me so I really enjoyed learning all about what everyone else is doing.

I still read the entire magazine, I just don’t enjoy the stone articles as much because I don’t relate on a fabrication standpoint, not because they are poorly written articles.

The writing, articles, layout, advertisers and the entire magazine is still a solid magazine that I really enjoy getting in the mail.

[Shane Barker]

Thank you for the post Kevin,

I would say you did a great job explaining yourself and the reason the magazine has evolved the way it has. I personally enjoy reading about the Solid Surface more than the stone products, however the way things have change in recent years it is information that I can use to better my education on the other products. I feel it may even help me sell Solid Surface by knowing more about the other products. So thank you again Kevin I think you are doing a great job.

Shane

[Govi Reddy]

I’ll tell ya one thing about Kevin Cole, he has become a valuable asset to my business and he’s not even on the payroll! An absolute professional and willing to help you in any way he can. As our customer base evolved in to stone fabrication and we evolved in to a solid surface and stone tool supply company, Solid Surface magazine had to evolve as well to all surfaces. That does not mean if you are a solid surface fabricator that stone has to be in your future. The fact of the matter is it has for so many, that I can’t count them. But, the evolution from stone fabricator to solid surface has been few in my experiance. Believe me, I am the last person out there who likes change but if it comes to you and it feeds your family, then so be it.

[Norm Walters]

I can vouch for Kevin’s fabrication training. He was at ITEC with me, we huffed the same Methy Metharylate[EMO]indifferent.gif[/EMO]

[Mory Ludwick]

Kevin,

I think everything that you put into print has done nothing but help me get better and better. I met you a few years ago and valued your input then, still do, and I will always value it. You have become an icon, whether you believe it or not. I talk to alot of people and we all have alot of respect for you. You have become the magazine.

Now, lets get back to countertops. Solid surface has been our main focus and I am pretty proud of my staff and partners. By working as a team, we have become a very reputable countertop shop. The same applies to you and your staff when it comes to this industry. As everyone knows we do alot of granite and quartz work. We don’t ever touch the stuff, we sub it all out. We have gained alot of knowledge from the magazine. Not just by what is in print, but also by contacting the people in the articles. We are getting ready to make that leap and I have gathered all of the information from your magazine. It has everything to offer-from tools, to equipment, to even professional people to talk to. That is more than any college degree could get anyone. I like the idea of having all countertops connected one way or another. I feel the magazine, in time, will connect all countertop fabricators. Whether they be laminate, solid surface, granite, quartz, wood or even glass. That would be one large group of guys. Solid surface will always be our main focus and I love every minute of it. Keep up the good work, keep writing, and I’ll keep reading.

Thanks,

Mory

[Author]

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