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i live and work in a counter top war zone literally. in a 25 mile radius of our shop we have 6 counter top shops as well as the big companies coming across the bridge and under cutting every one else in a race to the bottom it is a known fact in our area the the big guys that have a little bit of money to spare you know the ones that back a container of stone up to the door and by the end of the day its all fabricated into counter tops. are pricing to break even they are purposely making no money on the jobs in this area in an effort to close out as many shops as they can and once that is done they will rase the price back to a normal standard price. there are 3 of these guys in our immediate area. that #6 thats only strictly granite shops there are something like 80 registered corian fabricators in a 30 mile radius. not all of them are active but it still poses a problem because there are so many registered fabricators it creates problems.
on top of the race to the bottom and the total # of shops in our area we have to deal with the ones that bad mouth every one. but what these guys dont know is this.
as a shop we have almost 0 overhead no Machine payments the building is paid every thing is paid basically in cash and from the time we have opened our door’s we have only had 2 official call backs. and slowly but surly we are growing. at times i feel its not fast enough but it is growth.
the large companies that go out and break even to drive people out are unethical. hard working honest people should not loose there lively hood because a larger company is just simply not willing to cut back temporarily. lay a few people off and down size for a short time that IMO is the ethical choice. but because the owner doesn’t want to drive a bmw instead of a ferrie he would rater take an honest living out of some one else’s hands. your writing reminds me of some of those people
Posted By politefab on 30 Oct 2008 07:48 PM
the large companies that go out and break even to drive people out are unethical. hard working honest people should not loose there lively hood because a larger company is just simply not willing to cut back temporarily. lay a few people off and down size for a short time that IMO is the ethical choice. but because the owner doesn’t want to drive a bmw instead of a ferrie he would rater take an honest living out of some one else’s hands. your writing reminds me of some of those people
Eli:
Here we have a fundamental philosophical disagreement. Why does a large company have an obligation to “cut back temporarily”? He was small once too.
I think your low-overhead, paid-for strategy is a good one. This big guy will go nuts trying to kill you, expecially with your excellent reputation. You are well-positioned to survive.
I had a discussion with a very well-respected former ISSFA board member several years ago. He instructed his salesmen to not lose a job to a very small competitor, NO MATTER THE PRICE.
At the risk of overusing the animal analogy, this Board member reminded me of watching those African documentaries where a lion will mercilessly kill the cubs of a lioness that he didn’t father. I can’t stand to watch, it seem so senseless, but it is the way of the world.
It is brutal out there, but if your larger competition “cut back temporarily” as you suggested, think of how hollow your survival victory would be. You’d never really know if you could have made it without the mercy shown you.
Show me no mercy, thank you. I had the owner of one of the top twenty-five shops in the country call me in a fit of rage and it was music to my ears. Kill me if you can big boy, I perfer the peace of death over a life of your grace.
Joe
This guy says it better than me:
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”
Samuel Adams
Joe
Capitalism = No Mercy
Understand
it because your competitor will do what ever it takes to survive. The better
you understand the “Enemy” the more prepared you will be.I am not saying you should be
unethical or break the law to get ahead but hard nosed competition is what
spawns innovation and breeds success.If badmouthing the competition was an effective means to
sell my goods than that is what I would do. Proven research shows that it only
turns the customer off. Remember the Goodyear commercials that badmouthed
Firestone (or the other way around)? It almost put them out of business.I remember going to a Dupont meeting
for Corian about five years ago. The talked crap about Staron and HI-Macs. They explained how bad the material
was and the fact those companies stole their color pallet. Everyone in that
room were dealers of Staron and
HI-Macs by the end of the week. Dupont would have been wise to not even acknowledge their existence. Instead they advertised for
them.A Corian Rep told me HiMacs might catch on fire while it was being fabricated.
I haven’t had to use my fire extinguisher yet!
Curt
i understand all to well the tactics of the larger companies i helped write the polices for our biggest competitor while i was plant manager. some of what i here sounds like pure desperation that does not work. my reputation sells my my work not my words not my pricing
Posted By Curt H on 31 Oct 2008 12:11 PM
A Corian Rep told me HiMacs might catch on fire while it was being fabricated.I haven’t had to use my fire extinguisher yet!
Curt
What he should have said was “Hi-macs is on fire, they are sellin the heck out of that stuff”
I don’t even know for sure where this tread is going . But Back stabbing , Name calling ,Wishing ill on someone no matter what they have done to you is wrong. Why cant we all just be nice to each other?We had some very nice salespeople show up hear this week representing the Hanrx line of SS. (Nice Product by the way) . Never once id they bad month another product. The just talked about there surface and its attributes. Very refreshing indeed. Made me want to buy some.The same should be true as a Fabricator, talking bad about your competitor is not the correct way to do things.What if someday you needed your job back? How’s that going to work out ? Always take the high road.Love this thread..didnt know it was going into brain therapy…
I dont bad mouth my competition..i was just asked that recently….Are you competitive with the other shops?
What da hell does dat mean? i thought to myself..I dont waste anytime trying to call up countertop shops to find their pricicng, I keep current by current material, magazines, forum posts, architects info, designers info, etc.
do you think the Jaguar dealer worries about the Yugo dealer?
i think my job is to create, fabricate , install, be informed about the latest innovative materials in our industry…I do lose business to my competitors…but it seems to only be due to time contstraints and price…to me that is a good reason to lose customers to your competitor…I NEVER and will do everything in my power to NEVER, EVER lose a customer do to poor quality work…
I wanna be better than I useta be yesterday, I dont care if i can be better than another CT shop….I in most cases will help my competitors…I can smell a Rat and was raised that way…I dont get screwed or disrespected TWICE…once it happens and shame on them,,,,twice well then shame on me
I just realized i do talk negative with fellow CT workers when the news reports CT shop X was taking deposits and then dropped outta sight,I tell customers when Im out doing home shows, etc. to ask other shops if they are certified in the material you are buying…that will then decide if they are even considered the COMP<
to me statements like that and similar are not beating my competiton….I dont even consider that bad mouthing my comp….they are snakes that bootleg material and shouldnt even be in the phonebooks, etc saying they are experts of SS when they cant even attend the training….
this thread went a little side ways but so what it is still something that is a part of any business
Posted By Jon Olson on 01 Nov 2008 06:13 AM
I don’t even know for sure where this tread is going . But Back stabbing , Name calling ,Wishing ill on someone no matter what they have done to you is wrong. Why cant we all just be nice to each other?Always take the high road.Jon:
I don’t know where this thread is going either, but I’m proud of my part in taking it where its been.
I agree that back stabbing and name calling are wrong. If you came into my shop and murdered everyone, I would wish you a life sentence in prison, but I would not want you to get the death penalty as it is barbaric.
We can all get along, be nice and take the high road, however, that and singing “Kumbuyya” around the ISSFA campfire does not relieve you of your capitalist responsibilities and obligations. It’s a tough line to walk, but we can do it together.
Joe
after thinking about it i dont think that this thread has gone off topic at all” INTEGRATION” does not just include materials as our companies grow we have to integrate many things materials, techniques, machinery, business plans, sales tactics, and much more it is up to us as individuals to decide what is best for us as far as what materials will work for us and what is ethical or not i have been in something like 40 different shops all over the country and i have yet to see 2 that are alike
Yup…whoever said the Topic author controls the direction of the thread..its the actual name of the Topic that gets the points to ponder
Integration of shops and customers when we do or did this move should pertain…and dont anyone change this discussion to Forum topic rules it getting gooder
Posted By politefab on 02 Nov 2008 11:44 AM
after thinking about it i dont think that this thread has gone off topic at all” INTEGRATION” does not just include materials as our companies grow we have to integrate many things materials, techniques, machinery, business plans, sales tactics, and much more it is up to us as individuals to decide what is best for us as far as what materials will work for us and what is ethical or not i have been in something like 40 different shops all over the country and i have yet to see 2 that are alikeEli:
We are in agreement again and I agree with Gene.
Joe
as far as sales go you have to be care full of who you hire to do your sales as well a sales rep out there bad mouthing people is a direct reflection an your business. as well the people you have out there doing your installs and templates any thing that comes out of there mouth is a direct reflection on you company. every one out in the field is a reflection of your company
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