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Wags,
I’m not complaining, I’m debating. If there was a good, honest solution to this I’d be all over it. The details are so vast and choices will have to be made that will hurt many who should be included but aren’t.. Too often we half-ass a problem and pat ourselves on the back for what good intentions we have, when we haven’t done much at all.
I also think my way is better. It wasn’t litter fines that cleaned up our highways, it was people realizing that they need to be part of the solution. Education will do more than restrictions, labels, conformity fines, and badly derived labels will combined. Start with that.
Are you prepared to accept that your product may not make the list? You may think it belongs, but there are as many argumants against it than there are for it. How will you feel when yours doesn’t make the cut when you know it should? There are so many ways to figure what is “Green” and what is not that there is no possible way to get it right. If you are willing to have a more expensive product that may in all likelyhood screw folks that it shouldn’t, okay, that’s your decision.
This is too big for Government not to get involved, and when they do it will be wrong, unnecessary, unhelpful, and uneconoomical. How do I know? It always is.
We only disgree on tactic. You want to do something on a large scale. I think it should be local. You think people need sign posts, I think there is no fair way to do that. I say buy smart, treat your stuff well, keep your emission producing vehicles in good running order (except for leaking Harleys), and you will do more for less cost than all your government sponsored spinning wheels of color will ever do.
You are correct, of course. It will happen. When it does, I will have to decide to either follow the market, or follow my conscience with regards my customers. I will not lie to them. I am taking their money and they deserve better than what they are about to get. Ten years down the road, when we see that things aren’t much better than they were, we won’t be thinking that this was not a good solution, we will merely ask for more. And more.
We always do. Look at welfare, entitlements and social services.
Tom
Finally, I’d like to state for the record that presently it seems if you don’t think this is the right way to go about it you are labled someone who doesn’t want to. It is the worst of Progressive thought that their way is the only way, and its insulting. I’m not talking about you, Wags, though you are getting a tad close to “if you’re not part of the solution you’re part of the problem”. You seem to be saying “Hey, it’s gonna happen, so you should do what you can to help shape it right”. Forgive me if I’m wrong.
But for the PC crowd, if I don’t think this is the way to get it right then I don’t care? Bull. And anyone so arrogant to try to label me as such will never get this or any problem solved.
/rant off/
Tom
I just saw this and thought it might interest those keeping track of this thread.
Tom
Im just saying, the green movement is for real. I choose to have a voice in my little world about what is real and what is false. Each of us have to do what we feel is right for us. I don’t judge anyone, I just think the more educated we are, the more imput we have, the better the “program” will be. Wouldn’t it of been nice if ISSFA had been writing press releases about what a great products SS is, rather than stick there head in the sand and allow stone to go unchallenged? And then in the end, give in to the “stone” guys and embrace them in the organziation. We need a voice for SS, and we (fabricator network) may be the voice that will speak for this industry.
I have no clue how the Green movement will progress, but, I will have a small voice in the process.
There is alot wrong in this country, but I still vote, even though at times it is very difficult to see what difference one person can make. Call me an optimist, it won’t be the government that sets the standards, it will be education and cutting throught the bull that will shape what is real and what isn’t.
“There is alot wrong in this country” REALLY? Is the glass half full or half empty? I’ve looked at other countries, even been to them, This place aint half bad…full or empty that is.
You can have your green movement, I will submit that most consumers don’t give a crap.
Did I say I thought some other country was better ? Geesh.. nice leap. And I don’t know, but most of the towns I know of, have recycling programs. Ever recycle a newspaper? Thats Green Dave.. Cleaner water? Cleaner air? All part of the Green movement. Cabinet companies planting two trees for each tree cut down? Green again. Turning down your thermostat ( or up as seasons determine) Green again. Using a bag in your car for trash, not using the side of the road.. opps.. Green again.. Low E Windows ? Green. Awnings on windows ? Opps.. Green again.. Solar pool heaters ? yep.. Green… Electric from Nuclear power ? Yeppers.. Green
You may be more “green” than you care to think…. or admit.
Gee Dave.. you seem a little angry.. I live in Arizona, use to live in Illinios, Kids live in North Carolina, New Hampshire, Illinois, Colorado, and Arizona.. ALL have recycling programs.. Gee Flordia doesn’t ? Hate trees also Dave? Yep, im a tree lover.. Opps.. I did get Agent Orange sprayed on me a while back..didn’t like it… didn’t like that it killed 1000’s of my fellow Marines… does that make me an enviromental wacko?
Interesting article.. On Americans most liked companies.. Dave, perhaps more people DO appreciate Green than you believe?
General Electric
Top 20 Rank: 1
Why? GE‘s innovative “Ecomagination” campaign pledges to develop environmentally friendly products such as a solar hybrid locomotive, lower-emission aircraft engine and even more efficient lighting. But wait till you hear how much GE saved on its own energy bills last year.
No wags, I’m not angry, just a realist. In your honor, I’m going out back after I type this, and I’m going to cut down the 30′ oak.,process it and make a breakfast bar for you.
After that, I’m going to put a for sale sign on the suburban, get rid of the fleet of GMC 3500’s and attempt to deliver pallets of products in some hybrid Yugo !
Feel better wags !
Hey wags, I’ve also eliminated my 40′ concrete, circular driveway. I ground up no less than ten coconut palms in the backyard and spread them over the now sparse driveway area. If it so happens that any coconuts grow, I’ll juice them and make a bio-fuel for my lawn mower. Come to think of it, I should just get rid of that lawn and put in an eco-friendly mass of weeds that will be San Fransisco friendly.
Now, that’s the ticket!
Ever recycle a newspaper? Thats Green Dave.
That’s education and attitude adjustment. Dave is going to wait until next Friday Night, but I want to be there when it happens.
Cleaner water? Cleaner air? All part of the Green movement.
Yeah, ‘cuz the other side wants, Wants I Tell You! dirty water and dirty air. Either way it too was more attitude than complicated ratings system.
Cabinet companies planting two trees for each tree cut down? Green again.
Yeahp, good marketting, better results, great return for the investment. Did they plant the trees themselves? Even better. This is the way it’s supposed to happen.
Turning down your thermostat ( or up as seasons determine) Green again.
NOt because of any programs, infomercials, government study grants… it was the market that gets that one.
Using a bag in your car for trash, not using the side of the road.. opps.. Green again.. Low E Windows ? Green. Awnings on windows ? Opps.. Green again.. Solar pool heaters ? yep.. Green… Electric from Nuclear power ? Yeppers.. Green
I always felt that it was attitude shift for the cleaner highways. But still, cost? $ .05 per soft drink bottle. Return? In some places, true paradise. This is one of the most awesome success stories in consumer education.
Recycled garbage? I’m willing to bet that it costs far too much to be considered fair burden, but it has to reinforce the idea that we should clean our rooms. Mom new this years ago, but did we listen? And still, the market was doing many of these without government coersion(sp?). I’ll give you bottle deposits if you give me littering fines, as that’s law enforcement.
You may be more “green” than you care to think…. or admit.
The only way to get Dave green would be if Steve L drives the new baby to Fla.
I’ll be green too.
Tom
Our differences are less and our ideals are true.
I just want the better eeturn on my investment.
Education.
Wags,
Well, that didn’t take too long now did it?
Anectdotal? Absolutely.
You know what the plural of anecdote is?
Data.
h/t: The irreverent, observant and hysterical Ace of Spades.
Tom
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