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We market our own 8installation. There is a difference in how we approach the job.
I thought often about jobbing that 0ut, but sometimes you even end up with third party installers.
For your size shop it may be better to find a small granite shop that would be willing to stick with your guidelines.
Tom and I have similar methods to our granite jobs. The difference being I think he is using the wrong fabricator though I don’t know who he is using and I believe he is paying markup on the materials.
Tom, Buy your slabs direct from the warehouse and work out a beneficial deal with a smaller fabricator who still does quality work. The big guys won’t let you sent them your own slabs and even try to steal your customers on occassion. I had a terrible experience with a large supposedly commercial only fabricator from New Britian both times I used them they tried to steal my customers when they went to approve slabs.
The nice thing about me using a smaller fabricator is that between the two of us most of our remnants from kitchen jobs are traded for vanity work. I have access to any of their rems and they buy mine as well from me often.
I do know that the shop that fabs for me and I compete all the time on jobs (as well as we both compete with you). This has not created any problems yet in 2 years for either of us. You never know which way a customer goes and why. They don’t know my customers name or even see any layouts before the job unless there is something really unusual about it. Some times I get a kick out of the customer telling me that they didn’t go with my fabricator for some odd reason and the custy never knew who actually fabbed the tops. Most of the time its all about the install and who is in their house.
Topshop:
I don’t see how your “competitor” and fabricator ever loses. If he sells a job retail he wins, but if he sells fabrication services to you he wins also.
In the first case he makes a bit more money, but he has much more risk and work. In the second, he does no hand-holding and question answering, templating, install, sales and collection, but he grosses less too.
Not a bad spot to be in.
Joe
Exactly right Joe, He doesnt have to spend time running around but still gets to cover his shop costs with my work. I get to make better profit percentages because I don’t have the overhead on a shop that I was underutilizing. If I had the volume I would have my shop open again but I don’t right now. So far it works out great. I just wish I had a few more jobs a month because with me not wasting my time in the shop I could template and install up to 5 jobs a week. currently I’m no where that now. Me doing the template and install myself makes my profits. If I had to pay someone for that it would not work for me.
Dave,
Right now I use two fabricators. One is the guy in New Britain, although you worry me a bit with your comment. I have known this owner for about 20 years and I am surprised, if we are talking about the same outfit -( Longboats, Norsemen, name same as appliance company???). He is by no means the least expensive, but I trust his quality. I don’t know about too many other fabbers.same with my other fabbers, in Plainville. I usually use these guys for a particular brand of material which shall remain nameless here, as Brian has Voo-doo dolls of me in his cupboard, and he’s not afraid to use them. As a side note, this company’s new colors will move quartz surfacing quite a few yards down the line.
I will always be interested in quality, reliable fabricators.
When I started, your method is exactly what I used to do, and although it took longer, you knew you were pricing the job as honestly as you could. I always sent the customers to IGM and that was that. As my New Britain guy got bigger, just as you said, that was no longer acceptable to them.
Posted By Tom M on 07 Jan 2011 11:11 AM
That’s a lot of disappointment, Andy.
I think I’d like to avoid that.
Avoiding that is going to be expensive.
I interviewed about 6 shops before making my business change. Some just were not going to ever work out from the looks of the quality of the tops in their shop.
The guy in New Britian looked me in the eye, shook my hand like a man, and lied through his teeth. Then he sent his sales man to deal with me and would not return my calls after hosing me on his word. Their reason for not taking in my slabs from the place they often get slabs from themselves was because guys like me kept nailing them with remnants. Try to explain that – if I send slabs the remnants are mine – how am I making them buy more stone than the job is worth? After that is when they tried to steal the only 2 customers I sent into their warehouse. The worst part is that they tried to sell the tops directly to my customer for the same price they were selling them to me and were going to template and install for that same price to boot. One of the customers is a business owner and knew that was not a proper way to bo business and called me as soon as they left the shop. The second one admitted being sloicited by their sales guy after I finished the install. I had both of these customers under deposit before they went into the warehouse – so they were not going anywhere. Plus the stone they sold me was not of the best quality. No problems with the fab just not the best stone quality stone I have seen for the variety.
One of the shops I interviewed in Southington was a contract shop that insisted that they could polish properly on their cnc. Their guy was waxing the edges to bring up the shine on a job when I was there – wrong. It still had cnc tooling bit lines in the profile. Very poor edge work. When he found out why I didn’t want to sub to them he offered to hire his polisher back on for my work or would let me re-polish all the edges in his shop myself. I believe he is out of business or sold out.
I tried a shop in Bloomfield and he didn’t work out either.
The shop I work with now did have a few minor bumps in the road at first but I gave them a few fab pointers and I told them where to get better working pads for the money and things have settled in well. One things that has helped is that they know I am good at repairing minor natural issues in the stone and they leave them alone instead of making them worse like they did in the beginning. If a repair is not going to come out perfect they leave it to me. I am a better fix it guy then they are.
Wow, Dave. Is the guy in New Britain the same guy I’m using? It sounds like it from the description, but I never would have thought…
But I’m pretty gullible that way.
Sells cabinets and all other countertop surfaces too. Owners first name is Dave. Won’t let you send them slabs. A Nordic Business name. I am sure we are talking about the same company.
I only met him once personally and he seemed like a stand up guy at the time too but changed everything when belts got tightened 2 years ago and wasn’t man enough to look me in the eye or even talk to me on the phone about the changes. I was going to put most of my eggs in their basket – even buy cabinets through them. When I called my rep to set up displays they told me they would help on discounts with they said they would have to see if they could work something out. They were going to charge me markup on my displays. He nearly destroyed my new business plan at the time and took me for a loop. Shortly after they were advertising on craigslist for scratch and dent specials to get the public into their showrooms. I understand they felt they needed to do it for their own survival but it was done in a very sheepish sneaky way. It actually taught me a big business lesson and having my own lines helped me be more competitive in the end but it was not at all cool.
I think the guy I compete with from Hebron is using them too for all their tops but I am not sure.
They just need to be dealt with carefully.
Other guys to watch out for are the out of state ones who don’t even have a license to be in CT customers homes. I don’t care if I sold the tops if anyone wants to install in my customers homes they better be licenced to do business here. I think one of the kitchen showrooms (name like Stash) in your town useds the out of state guys for their hard surface tops.
That’s some food for thought there Dave.
Thanks.I hear ya on the S. Windsor kit place. Not a great deal of loyalty. I know that first hand.
I have installed several Fab Kings right next to CNC’s because the owners could cut out sinks (mainly 2210’s) faster and cheaper than the cnc could do them.
Go figure
Also, the Fab King was designed for the 2 to 10 kitchen per week shop and shops that don’t have three phase.
We are actually selling the heck out of them.
Posted By Rod Y on 17 Jan 2011 05:41 PM
I have installed several Fab Kings right next to CNC’s because the owners could cut out sinks (mainly 2210’s) faster and cheaper than the cnc could do them.
Go figure
Also, the Fab King was designed for the 2 to 10 kitchen per week shop and shops that don’t have three phase.
We are actually selling the heck out of them.
Very interesting. You would think that once you got the CNC, you wouldn’t need one, but I see the value.
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