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It’s also not uncommon to get an out of square leg that you have to decide whether to fabricate square or not. With a stick template, you see it instantly and make the best decision based on real visuals. More often than not, I choose the square coutertop, especially if the leg is short.
Andy’s digital templating table has the advantage here. You are truly scanning what you want made, instead of what you need to cover.
Tom M wrote
So then GShell, you have two requests that the tripod level requirements be addressed. Oh, and think about a better tripod real soon. Thy customers hath spoken.
Does Dan read this forum? You too, bucko.
I have to say, all in all, it’s a great piece of equipment that justifies the price. I just can’t bring myself to pick what I’m going to consider the cabinet face. I do it back at the shop and it takes more time making sure I don’t cheat a cabinet for overhang. And corner cabinets are always out of square, so you have to rely on another averaged run, but without the anchor in the corner. You make that decision on the jobsite nice and quick with stick.
This, by the way, is a problem in all digital template systems, far as I can tell.
Both Dan and I read this forum, and we take everything you guys say seriously. The tripods you guys have is the second model since the start of Laser Products. The tech guys at laser products are testing new ideas everyday. I send all of your comments to Dan and Jim and they add them to their research. I will stress the Tripod issue with them the next time we speak. I appreciate all the positive LT-55 information and am open to answer questions and take orders anytime, 616-293-6170.
Thanks
Both Dan and I read this forum, and we take everything you guys say seriously.
Good Lord! I hoipe you don’t mean “everything” or Gordon and I are in trouble. O.o
I would say if anything on the lt-55 has to be addressed it is the battery life and the fact that the thing locks up every night, causing you to do a reset everyday. Sometimes it will lock up inbetween templates during the day. Not that big of a deal but kind of annoying.
I go template, come back to shop and charge battery. Unplug from charger and the next morning the thing is totally dead.
Yes it is turned off and no memory stick in it.
Thats the only thing I dont like about it. ( I am speaking of the Ipaq, not the laser itself.)
I personly have no issues with the tripod. Most of what we do is on new cabs so I dont have to raise or lower it. I have done quite a few over old tops and had to shoot over backsplash then lower to targets and have never had a problem.
Gordon, is the adapter to shoot full height backsplash worth it or is it just a pain to use?
Your are absolutely correct on the LT HP problems, Travis. I was chiming in on the tripod, so I focused on that.
I can’t blame the LT guys for the hand-held, as it seems to me the stability issue is with the unit itself, rather than the software. I should note, though, that it is all part of what they sell, so they have some responsibility here. hope they find a more stable unit.
Mine is charging now for a template at the end of the day. The unit as well. I find myself using the hand held powered by the laser unit more and more.
Tom,
Can’t say that I have had any issues with raising and lowering the tripod or levelling the tripod. Maybe it’s because in a past life I have been a photographer and an engineer and have used tripods and levels extensively.
I do agree on the issue of the HP’s stability, it sucks. Almost every job I have to do a reboot. Not a huge deal but an annoyance.
The battery on the HP is also terrible. If it gets to zero I have found that plugging into the laser unit often is not enough to get the job done. I have had to plug it into the truck for half an hour or so and then back into the laser. I have gotten into the habit of plugging it in on return to the shop and leaving it plugged in until the next template. I have templated three jobs back to back on a full charge and still had power to spare, but you can’t let it sit around between jobs or overnight.
Paul
Matt, I am not tryin to argue digital templating, I’m only stating what works for me. Please don’t be so quick to judge. I’ve had bad experiences when doing work with another company.
As I stated in my post I can “often” do the wood templates faster, not always. Also I use precut full size sheets of luan 25.5 inches (very fast).
Glue gun is 1st when walking in the house, heck sometimes I’ll warm up the butane one in the truck before I even get there. I’ll lay out the sheets, glue them, mark them out, check the sink, faucet, and cooktop and I’ on my way.
When I did the phototop, I was very anal about how I did things. I would always take the pics 2 times to make sure all dots were covered and there were no glares. I always put the cards on the floor on L’s to complete the circle as recommended to my by the phototop techs. I would spend the same time as the glue gun warming up just to level the first card on each top. If there were 2, 3, or more tops I would have to relevel the first card for each piece. Once finished with all the pics and clean up I would do a drawing with several measurements wall to wall, centerline of sink, wall to end of cabinet, diagonals, etc Maybe it was overkill but I am a perfectionist. An average phototop would take me 45min to 1 hour per template. I can usually do a wood template in the same time or less. I’m not talking about my time to cut the luan, only my time on site.
As a mentioned I currently do not have a CNC, so I have no need for digital templating right now.
I am not tring to argue one way or another, I’m just stating my personal experience. If you are getting close to perfect results with the phototop system and can do it in 20 minutes, then you are better than me. Please do not insult me and call my statement BS. That is the truth so please don’t call me a liar!
Mark,
Don’t take it personally, I just don’t think you are evaluating the system based on the full picture or the full criteria.
There is no reason to take pics twice, no need for the complete circle on one right angle. I do that on U shapes that are both legs over about 10 feet or so, otherwise if you layout the corners properly in a 36″ triangle, you are going to get good results. Always stagger your targets front back along all legs of L’s and U’s.
I take physical measurements to double check the dimensions we bid the work on, but that is as simple as scribbling down some c-top on the drawing that I brought to the job from the office. Also, not sure how much time you spend leveling the card, but it just might be a waste. The card only need be as level as the cabinets your countertops are going to sit on, therefore being on plane is far more important than being level. If you make a template level, but the cabinets aren’t level, your top isn’t going to fit anyway. I usually just find a nice level corner of the cabinet to set in on, or take a framing square with me and set my first target on the framing square which perfectly spans 24″ tops.
If you spent that much time doing PhotoTop, you probably can make stick templates faster, but you aren’t comparing apples to apples.
Also, I disagree with your statement about not needing PT due to lack of CNC. There are numerous situations where PT makes things much easier to capture field data. Add to that the ability to draw in CAD and plot full radiI and arcs and such, you are miles ahead with PT regardless of CNC.
If you are truly a perfectionist, learn to trust the most accurate method of templating — digital. Then you will get perfectly scribed tops and won’t have to rely on a utility knife for your “perfect” tops.
No personal attack here, just be fair in your evaluations and you will find that the digital systems are better.
Matt,
Part of the problem with digital templating is the perfection. A stick template allows you to make adjustments you’d have to make anyway, but right there onsite, with few difficulties. The customer actually sees the fit (if she’s there) and is more likely to understand questions of choice and fit, to answer her to her understanding.
I use the LT often, and will use it today, but there are always things that one method does better than others.
Tom,
What you said is true.
This is also true: You couldn’t pay me to make stick templates all day once I am used to PhotoTop.
Mark claimed that his method was faster, and I think we know that not to be fair given his methods. I was not a believer at first, but I surely am convinced now that an experienced user of PhotoTop will make you money. And that is what we are all here for, correct?
Matt, I’m pretty sure I can do an LT55 template quicker’n’ stick right now, but I’m not sure I could beat my guys with stick. There’s so many factors that need to get plugged in that the story changes with the fabricator, I would expect.
Andy digitizes all his templates, so that adds time to stick for him, but he has shaping (if it has been scribed to fit onsite), and he has those annoying straight line decisions all set. He may process faster than I could with the LT dxf file.
A fabricating friend makes a hard template and goes back onsite to check it. This seems to many of us like an unnecessary step, but he sells metal and glass tops as well as sol surf and hard surf. he has a high degree of confidence this way, and as long as he gets paid for it, I think it’s great.
It all depends on the shop, and as you have stated before, I think, it all depends on how well you use the system.
One of these days I may become a PT user (or ET), but for now the LT works well for me.
Heck I will guarantee I can do a template in half the time is anyone with a sticks. Not only that but I will also guarantee my top fits better. The down side to the lt-55 is the darn thing is to accurate. If you build wall to wall tops the with the measurment it gives you… well the darn thing wond fit. A 20 circle will not fit inside a 20″ circle.
The point is everyone does things there own way and its obviously the way that they are comfortable with and hopfully the it makes them money. Thats fine. But in no way ever ever ever will sticking a job be better than digital. And thats the way the cookie crumbles.
Who started this darn topic anyway….hmmmm must have been Andy
Templating with a FARO Digital Template System for almost 3 years. It shows the entire job on a laptop and you can show and see all cabinet face frame and wall scribes as well as put in your overhangs which you can show your customer. Extremely fast and accurate. Export to autocad and send to CNC. We also stick template FHBS after new top is installed.
Without doubt a skilled craftsman can be good using any tool. And everyone likes different tools for different reasons. But I don’t see too many people building houses with hand saws, planing boards with chisels, or drilling holes with a hand drill. Not much market for that. This is a tech age and Hi-Tech gets more done, faster and better.
How many of us still use a typewriter instead of a wordprocessor? Or a clothesline instead of a dryer? Microwave anyone? My phone takes pictures of job sites, sends them by email, surfs the internet, warns me my next appointment is in an hour, shows me how to get there, displays dopler radar of the local weather, and plays hundreds of songs through my car stereo. And everyone on this site is using internet and enjoying free worldwide instantaneous communications, a concept I couldn’t even conceive of when I built my first top. The fact is there are too many benefits to staying current with technology. And if you don’t stay with it, you fall behind.. while your competition gets ahead. And if you don’t fix little glitches in your tripod your competition gets an edge, and people write nasty little notes on the internet for the whole world to read. Such is life. Aint’ it fun?
So to each his own. As for me, I am so glad we went digital, and am so glad I could do it for <$10k with the LT55! And a 10 minute template.. Wow! That's really hard to beat. And besides faster and easier, we market the fact that we do digital templates. People love it. They believe in technology. It inspires confidence and respect. We've owned the Laser for less than a year and already the number of new accounts we've landed and additional business we've attracted has already paid for the system. It's one of the best decisions we could've made. Thanks Gordon. Next we're on the hunt for hi-tech tripods.
You guys that are looking for a cool tripod need to look on the internet for Surveying equiptment. They make some really cool stuff and it might work for you. Like This
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