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Posts
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William, your ideas are sound. Good to hear it.
Norm – I think you hit that one out of the park. I’ll just say that manufacturers are going to do what’s in the best, usually short-term, interest for the shareholders and their pockets. If they see enough demand for this, they will weigh the risks of losing fab base for warrantless out the door sales.
An Avonite guy told me they had already heard of this and have suposedly contacted both the seller and the distributor that is selling the material to the company doing this. A reference was made to demanding that there be no mention of their premium sheets, not sure if that means the acryilics and polyesters or just the polyesters.
Sounds like Avonite is being proactive on this. Mysteria and Formica, who knows.
Al,
Did you get the impression they meant no selling, or no mentioning the name of the product, but they could still sell. Big diff in my book.
Ummm,
Not sure Tom. Could have been a rushed email, or some wiggle room was left. I believe the rep that sent the word has good intentions, but he isn’t the guy directly involved with dealing with this.
Let’s give them the benefit of the doubt for now. After all, it is in their best interests as well as ours.
Wow never got to see this thread, my head must have been up my a**! I like the half sheet companys for us, not anyone else that is. After reading this thread, selling any SS to anyone uncertified is lame!( At least ask if there certified in some brand and how long?) Even a vanity can be made out of half sheet which again screws up the industry cause the person used black glue to build white edges with voids and then polished it with 80 grit. The problem also is SS is bulked into one classification material ie “Comparrison charts,etc” Acrylic ,Polyester Blended, Luminstone,etc, they require different fab techniques as well as i always try to point out when someone just puts SS on Comparrison sheets as if all SS is the same White Acrylic is easier to sand then Midnight Black polyester hi polished but it still goes into the SS section, I know alot of people who been working with the 5 basic colors of Corian for 25 years hand them some Copper Canyon polyester and tell them to Hi polish it, they;ll just say that stuff is S**T, rather than continue education. Also any weazel can get a form to buy SS Certification seems to just mean you can buy it anymore. Kyle , was still kinda agreeing with you until you said the part about , professional electricians,carpenters, etc. they should have the right to buy not hack people. What is your process to seperate the difference when someone calls or buys on line with a credit card and you don’t even meet them?
Your kidding me right? You think Trade professionals all have the same talent? I consider my self a professional Solid Surface fabricator, Mica laminator and Fixture builder. would you let me re-wire your house because i can sand solid Surface? When your toilet backs up please dont call me either! Sorry for my pearls of sarcasm but you must have been kidding in your response to Norm, please tell the electricians (when they tell you they are a professional electrician) to call Norm or someone else that this stuff is not so easy to work with, So much for me being proud of Solid Surface….S**T …BOBO the roofer can do countertops out of SS, don’t listen to that certified guy mam, I’ll get it for ya cheaper, them certified people are out to get you….On the other side of the coin, how will you make money if you only seel to us? I understand your dilema, most of us certified would only need scrap sheets and remnants if uncertified fabricators or electricians are doing the work?
Looks like they took the Avonite sheet goods off, but kept Formica and Mystera full sheets. I noticed that Avonites sinks were still available.
Why haven’t Formica and Mystera yanked the plug on this company?
Anyone interested in sending some boxes of samples back to where they came from?
Al check out http://www.solidsurface.com everything solid surface, same type like the surplus, they do sell avonite too but hafta buy ten sheets minimum, they can mix colors also..hmmmmmm they also mention Corian specialties…But look on their home page and see who their resources are??????
Gene,
I could be wrong, but I believe they are one and the same, these two sites. I emailed the link to the B grade Avonite to an avonite rep.
I think they just linked to fabnet, no biggy in my mind.
Thanks for pointing it out again. This is bad for Avonite and any others that participate.
Gene,
I got to thinking. A while back, the technical director was fired over at Avonite, David Flock, or so I was told. I got three stories from three different sources. Wonder if this is connected in any way?
This doesn’t sound like Avonite, selling B grade to the uncertified.
Refresh Gene wrote
Al check out http://www.solidsurface.com everything solid surface, same type like the surplus, they do sell avonite too but hafta buy ten sheets minimum, they can mix colors also..hmmmmmm they also mention Corian specialties…But look on their home page and see who their resources are??????
Gene,
I want to be clear on this. You guys are the voice of this industry, not me. Solid Surface.com can link to any site they want including this one. I don’t endorse this or any site. If you have an opinion, you are more than welcome to voice it here. I have mixed feeling about the site, but see the viability for both the fabricator and DIY guy that works out of his garage.
My major concern is with manufacturers telling me not to sell material to a DIY customer and then doing it themselves. Not sure how much this exists anymore. I know material that is sold to an un-certified fabricator, there is no warranty. In the coming years, I believe you will be able to purchase sheets of material at you local builder center and fabricate whatever you want.
If your smart you will use this as a marketing tool rather than competition.
Remember, they sell wood at home centers, but most people don’t make their own cabinets.
Just a note. Kyle, owner of solidsurface.com is a real good guy. He is working on making his site a viable option for all fabricators.
Thanx for the clarification, Regardless of what I say, i have all these guys saved as favorites. If i need a peice ima calling. I was just interested in this thread mainly because what does Certification really mean anymore??? I really want customers to come to me Because i’m good not just certified. talk to ya later
If my humble opinion, certification means nothing to the manufacturer . Look at it this way. Their goal is to sell product. They offer a 10-15 year warranty for marketing purposes. If the product is fabricated and installed by someone that is not certified, they are off the hook. They have still made the profit on the sale. I think we need to use our certification as a marketing tool because that is about all it is good for.
Back in the “old days”, they were worried about their image and they had much more control (for better or worse). Now they are worried about sales. I went to a meeting with one of the manufacturers many years ago and they pretty much said that solid surface would eventually be sold much like laminate. With all of the products coming in from China, some brand of solid surface is now available to anyone if they can just found out where to buy it, and that is not going to get any better.
I still love the stuff.
Linda
Linda,
That was true, Sad but true, I guess it needs to get out, i do hate that they have no Solid Surface police, but i guess if more of us can be patient and let everyone start playing with SS without training or certification, maybe then we will be more appreciated for having a skill, maybe that needs to happen so that we can prove that drywallers have difficulty doing SS?, most of us can then make a living off repairs,
Gene –
Whoa, big fella!! Now you’re treading on occupied ground!
I’ve read this entire thread and there are many good points made herein. Al, Norm, Linda and Tom have all stated excellent positions. Sadly, the manufacturers, (as previously stated) are going to do whatever they need to do to protect their stock prices. That may well mean discarding their warranty perspective entirely and selling the product to us all, certified or not. Who knows, maybe the warranty will become optional and available only through us certified fabricators. Either way, with the way the warranties have been compromised lately, I can’t help buut think that this type of distribution is coming whether we like it or not. The new options out of China are just one of the reeasons. All we really can do is change with it. Or shout at the wind, I guess.BTW, my understanding is that David was let go by Avonite as his fab shop became an unbearble interest conflict with his position there. There were some complaints, and they had to take corrective action. I did not hear anything about that being related to this, and I speak with many Avonite people pretty regularly.
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