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Posts
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Andy wrote
I asked Matt Kraft about not having a physical template and he said that it wasn’t that bad. Just a different approach to templating.
So far I have not heard of anyone saying they
regret doing away with the templates, and that is great if it makes for a
better way to do it. We do a good job in catching possible issues on a job just
by reading the notes on the templates, can these notes be written on a job
sheet? Sure they can, will they be as effective? I don’t think they will. It
may be a small note to reference how far the top can extend by in a rather
tight area, or a note regarding a low outlet or a door trim that may be in the
way. Now I know this can all be written on a field sheet or even notes in a
computer, but having them on the templates where the problem will be is a very
effective way for the fabricators to catch it.What if the programmer puts the sink in the wrong
place or maybe puts it where the cooktop goes. What if he forgets to add the
overhang in one area of a very odd shaped top and the fabricators don’t have a
physical way to catch it. On very tight situations it is nice to take the
template in first and check the fit before carrying in a huge top with an
integrated sink fitting between walls and into a window. Problems that are
caught in the shop can usually be fixed without too much of a setback, once
they get out to the jobsite to install it changes everything.I have no doubt that there is an answer to all of
these issues from the people not doing physical templates anymore but these are
some of the things I worry about when doing away with the templates. The one way
I saw that would be an alterative is the laser templating system with the
plotter that you can use at the job site to cut the templates out of a Mylar
material and check them before you leave the job. I thought this would also
work out very well for sending the templates to an outsource company that does
not use CNCs. The downside is that it would not really save me time and it
would be an investment that I don’t think I could justify.I hope I don’t sound like an old fart not willing
to change his ways. I really do like new technology but only if I am convinced
that it is better technology.Shane
I tend to agree with what you are saying. It is nice to have a template to compare. I don’t think cutting the top on mylar with a plotter would solve many problems because you would be cutting the same mistakes you are going to reproduce when you cut the top. The mistakes would just match.
The time saving is what I think would be great. Making a temp, is no problem, but then you have to get that information into the computer and I think that is where you can save some time.
Andy,
The idea with using the plotter is that it would be done at
the jobsite and then the mylar was put on the cabinets and checked for accuracy
and then notes could be added at that time.On an average job how long does it take you to get the info
into the computer from the templates?Shane
It is not so much the time digitizing the templates, it is the fact you might have three templates for one u-shaped countertop. Then you have to import all the pieces and assemble them to get a complete counter.
To answer your question though, it probably takes about 20 minutes to put them on the board, digitize, and then transfer to the CAD computer.
Yeah that sounds
about right,When I template I try to seam the template where the seams will be on the job
so when they get digitized I don’t need to put them together. On lengths longer
than 8’ we will put them together before they go on the digitizer. It is not
often that I need to put the drawings together on the computer but when I need
too it is a pain. Do you always put the drawings together to complete the
kitchen? If so… why?Shane
I don’t seam it together once back into the computer. I place the seams in their exact position at the job site. But I like to oriente the tops all together on the computer so I don’t put the sink where the cooktop goes. Give me a better idea of the finished project.
If you do a photo or laser template, it is all in one piece. Then you can just put the seam where ever you want.
You know just talking about this kind of proves that no matter what system you do, it will take time. If you travel far, send out digital temps to other companies, or just do hundreds of jobs, either system is very effective. Both have flaws and both have great advantages. Now just deciding on a system is the key.
It is probably safer to arrange all the pieces like you say
to get an idea of the finished product. I guess I am too lazy to do it in the
computer I arrange the templates on the shop floor and make a quick sketch by
hand. This also gives me the opportunity to go over the job with the
fabricators and if I did not do the template myself a chance to go over it with
the person that did. Before we cutout the job my fabricators arrange the
templates on the benches so they will have them set-up and ready when the
pieces come off the CNC.With so many systems out there now it would be very difficult
to decide. And I am sure when the day comes that I feel I need to change the
way we do it there will be even more options. The one thing I never run short
of is things to spend money on.
Shane
Shane,
The system you were talking about with cutting out the mylar. Who is it? I am needing to figure out how to get my templates to them. Then if I need to get info to guys that have a CNC machines to just transport that info to them. Curious to see if it would be worth it or not.
Reuben
Most systems will let you send the file to a mylar cutter. I sell the LT-55 laser system which can be coupled with the Allendatagraph template maker, feel free to email me with any questions gshell661@yahoo.com. Before anyone gets confused, I am an independent distributor for Laser products, my full time job and passion is EOS Surfaces.
you can see the allendatagraph system @ http://www.allendatagraph.com
For more information on digital templating, read Bill Wolle’s latest article in Surface Fabrication, he pretty much sums up the savings.
It was difficult for me to switch from stick templates to digital, I was doing it for a while and just liked having something physical to look at and deal with. However, after biting the bullet and learning the system better, I cant imagine doing templates any other way. We use the LT-55 and at first I did not like it, but after the rep that we bought it from came down to train me himself so I could learn it better, I really like it. Other than not having a photo of the job to reference built into the file like phototop, it is deadly accurate. If the painter comes in after we template it might not fit[EMO]bigsmile.gif[/EMO].
Fast, acurate and already in DXF format.
John
Like jcristina said, get training on any system before you give up. My only unsatisfied LT customers were the ones that were afraid to ask questions, once they got training they were very happy. benefit of the LT-55 is that most people can learn from the DVD training or a phone consult, if not the training is free and you’ll be up and running accuratlely with 45min. (problem with most guys, like me, is we think we know it all and we pitch the directions and try to wing it). Each system has its benefits, and short comings but they all beat stick templating.
When we switched to the ETemplate system about 4 or 5 years ago we tryed to mess around making our normal cardboard temps but it was just to much of pain to do both.I think we did that 2 or 3 times and just said to heck with it and made the commitment to learn the system.I think that was the best course of action as it made us take good notes and forced us into getting away from the mindset of hard temps.There are times when details are overlooked however I can go in and manually mark items to get measurements or whatever might be needed, for example:. sink centers, ending returns or stopping cove splashes.I think the digital templating system coupled with the cnc were the best shop optimizer for us.Thanks
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