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Posts
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Quick Note. Len Smith was a member of the Souther California Solid Surface Assocation started before ISSFA and is what ISSFA based their entire association around.
He was an ISSFA member since way back. This is a person you may want to take all the advice you can get. He is a very level headed thinker and seems to always be fair.
Listen to him if he is willing to share his past experiences.
Just my opinion.
Listen to him if he is willing to share his past experiences.
What about women? Can he tell us anything about these strange creatures?
I figure being from California might be a bonus on that.
Oh great Tom you now made me think of something to derail this thread, but here it goes anyway.
This whole thing Kinda reminds me of a story about two bulls in a pasture of cows. You see there was this old bull who had been around th efarm for awhile and th efarmer decided it was time to bring in a young one to replash the old one. Well the young bull was standing next to the old bull on the hill across from all the lovely looking cows. They young looked ove at the old one and says come on gramps lets run over there a “breed “us one or two of those. The old bull looked at the young one a said you go ahead but I think I will just walk over there and “breed” them all.
Sometimes I think we need to think like the old bull and this just might be one of em. Just an ol country hicks opinion.
Reuben
Then there’s the story of Mrs. and Pres. Calvin Coolidge and the rooster.
But that would really derail the thread. Upshot to that story, as Dave is wont to say: Choice is good.
Mory, I wasn’t being sarcastic, I was making light of the situation. I guess you didn’t get the joke.
Am I looking at what I think I’m looking at??!
Did the very thread that was posted about the forum being overrun by SSA talk GET OVERRUN BY SSA TALK?!!
Look folks, it seems clear (to me, at least) that we ALL ALREADY ARE on the front lines of this industry whether we like it or not. I don’t think it matters what exactly we are selling or fixing, nor does it matter a whole lot where we’re doing it. The issues that seems to plague us appear to be unanimously observed to some degree. The advantages we share seem to fit the same basic mold as well. There is little or nothing standing in the way of us all working together with the tools and resources we currently have.
I can’t help but think that if we unilaterally sell these products in a conscientious manner to well-informed and supported customers through a network of qualified, honest retailers, couldn’t we then become a portion of the construction industry that people will come to welcome doing business with? Isn’t that a value-driven incentive to buy from us all in-and-of itself?
For the record, Surface Authority has already begun moving in this direction. We offer discounts and incentives to customers that stay within our local network of fabricators, we inform and sometimes re-direct people who have been mis-informed or flat out lied to by unscrupulous salesmen or big box stores, and all the business transactions through our shop are measured (and affected) by the relationships we have forged with the owners of the shops in our area.
In short, the associations we need and use are forged every day, every time. Many thanks goes to the shops, suppliers, and Fabnetters (and you know who you are) that work with SAI and help make us what we are. We couldn’t do it without you and we will always remember that.
Sorry Jon, I disagree.
What we have here, the point that everyone seems to be missing, is that the discussion is happening now. If the new Cosa Nostra is going to succeed, it will happen primarily behind the scenes. FabNet is the forum where people are shootin’, shoutin’, and sh*t kicking the ideas around. This is the cauldron, folks. This is the place where yes, no, and “I don’t care” all assemble. It’s how it’s supposed to be.
Al, you’re taking this way too personal. Also, and I’ve said this before, I will not be a part of an association that is merely anti-ISSFA.
It. Won’t. Work.
If it is going to work, it needs to work with, as you say, the few who are willing to step up to the plate. You can hardly blame those who have put faith, sweat and tears into an association only to get burned, to be anything but skeptical. The FabNet is as legitimate a place for dissenting opinions as agreeing opinions. That’s what it’s here for. You seem not to care if you burn a bridge or three, and I disagree with you on that. It will do no good in the future, so it’s no good now.
Len, I don’t know you very well, but you’re a host for your own forum. You, more than anyone, should know that some folks can say their piece better than others. You should also know that those with the pretty and diplomatic words aren’t always the guys with the great ideas. Or the guys with the drive to get what needs to get done. Al is not very diplomatic with his choice of words and phrases, that’s clear. Especially to Al.
He is, however, the guy that’s cooking the ecoli, setting up the site, working the fab book, and any number of who the freak knows what all and he’s the guy I’d want by my side when something needs to happen. Lord knows I’m not that guy, and I will never forget that about Al.
Andy has been remarkably generous with the real estate here. Much more than should be expected from a guy who doesn’t find this idea worth persuing. We need to chill the posts a bit, and start thinking about email, etc. Andy is being g-dd-mned gracious about what is essentially a lose-lose for him and his.
Some of us thgink it’s not time, or it won’t work. Some of us think that it’s better than sittin’ around bitching, and some of us (most of us, I’d bet) really don’t give a flying crap either way. There’s nothing wrong with that. Nothing at all.
No one seems to get that, and I don’t understand why.
It’s all good.
Going home now. The wife demands it, and I shall obey.
Mory wrote
WOW!
I can’t believe it. This week I thought I would do a search on the initials SSA. Also, I typed in Solid Surface Alliance. It kept coming up with ISSFA. and alot of other stuff. i did this to see what consumers would end up with. I thought maybe a few little positive suggestions might help, but I see now if anyone gets in the way of the SSA you have nothing but negative comments and sarcasm. So good luck to you all. I hope it all works. By the way Al, you need to get your facts straight. Andy had the Fabricator Network. I called him and asked him for his help and his talent to start moving towards where it is today. But granted, he did 99% of the work. Good Luck.
Mory
Mory,
I don’t quite get what facts I have wrong, but will take any ideas you might have on making an association work. Positive will work and I will listen to any thing that will help this thing do some good.
A while back, we had Kurt on here asking about setting up local meetings again. While not my idea of a good idea, at least someone at issfa is taking some competition seriously and trying to change. Is that not a good thing and can you positively say that it is not a direct result of us forming an association? Just by opening up a website and gathering a few folks, we are having a positive impact. If we do nothing else but force issfa to listen, would you not say that we have suceeded?
Can I accept your offer of “good luck” in a positive note and be done with this conversation?
Andy wrote
Quick Note. Len Smith was a member of the Souther California Solid Surface Assocation started before ISSFA and is what ISSFA based their entire association around.
He was an ISSFA member since way back. This is a person you may want to take all the advice you can get. He is a very level headed thinker and seems to always be fair.
Listen to him if he is willing to share his past experiences.
Just my opinion.
Andy,
You got me together with Russ Lee, mentioned he would be an asset and he has been. While he and I don’t agree on the path, we agree on the destination. The difference is that Russ gave his criticizm privately, and without arrogance while being graciouis. Advice given in such manner is a lot easier to take than what Len was posting. Russ managed to convince me that we needed to tone down the article a bit.
Russ asked me to pull something the other day, and i did out of respect for the guy, respect for him and his experience behind the scenes at issfa and in the trade. Those who claim that I don’t listen are completly off based, throwing out charges out of ignorance not fact.
As I stated in my reply to Len, advice is welcome, opinions are welcom, just lay off the personal attacks. I bite back……I don’t give a s***, (the secret to pleasing women that Tom asked about). Tom has me pegged pretty close, and I will say that I am the guy to get it going, but someone else will be needed in a few years. More of a politian, diplomat, but that is what happened with issfa, isn’t it.
Len, no offense, just punching back. If you have some advice on running this thing, we need it and you but if you are convinced it is a bad deal, I will respect that.
Tom
Trust me, I am not taking it personal at all. I just can not let it remain unanswered. I agree that anti issfa is not the way to go. That said (oh, there is those two words again, duck), when we sell a countertop, we have to educate the consumers while we do it. So selling SSA will mean showing or telling the difference between the two. I prefer showing.
SSA should be where all that would like Issfa to change directions should gather. What better carrot than to build the thing to issfa size, then offer to do a merge, given the right guarantee of changes? Or run tandem for a while to see if they are serious?
Anti issfa is a waste of time. Let’s face the facts, the MIA news letter gave their 2006 number at less than 700. Fabnet passed that months ago and will double it before the year is out. They have declining membership, a bloated overhead, they drive off volunteers, it no longer supports small shops, and it is run from the top down. It will change, it has no option once the money runs out in a few years. No doubt it has done wonderful things in the past, but it isn’t what it used to be.
I don’t mind anyone being sceptical, say your peice and sit back and watch. I see the bridge burners as those who do the personal attacks. Diplomacy is fine, ask Russ how we got along, even in disagreement, ask Andy the same. However diplomacy is only useful with gentlemen. Act like one and I will treat you like one. Bring a knife to the fight and I will run over you with my truck. Just my way, works fine if you are on my side.
Andy is indeed being gracious, but ssa should be a win-win for all. Just the controversy alone will bring visitors and those visitors will see ads, might even take the time to look at the “nice” threads. This started out so simple, we needed to raise cash for the study, a bank account was needed, someone to watch over it. Next thing you know, all this controversy starts up.
Let’s just get it done….
Rueben,
I thought I was the only one who knew that joke by heart. Easily one of my two favorites. The other would be:
Bear and a rabbit “pooping” in the woods,
Bear and a rabbit “pooping” in the woods
Bear looks at the rabbit and says “do you have problems with poop sticking to your fur?”
Rabbits says “NO” so the Bear picks him up and wipes his “Hiney” with him.
Poop, Hiney , is this what happens when you have kids?
Chris
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