[Al Farias]

All,

If you think I was just boasting about beating down the attempt to shout me down, you would be half right, but that half would be for the wrong reasons. Showing you guys that it is possible for one man to make a difference is the motivation for posting this thread. Another motivation is knowing that some of the worst offenders come here and grab quotes in an attempt to discredit me. People do stupid things when they get angry, I am counting on that.

Take the time to read as many of those thread over at garden web and HGTV and you will see the stoners being very carefull what they write now a days. One guy, one of the earliest opponents, came back recently. First thread he posted about was one I had mentioned radiation and granite in. Instead of making a fuss about it, the guy just mentioned that he was sure I had some backup or I wouldn’t have posted it. He ended saying that if what I said was true, it was important and beared watching closely. The only disagreement I remember was whether cheap granite was partially a part of this issue. The guy even came up with a darned good idea, that the chinese might be open pit mining uranium or some other sort of “hot” rock and selling the overburden.

Point is this, even when you can’t get them to agree with you, you can control their behaviour with mere words. Taking their arguements and “Fisking” as Tom put it, makes them look ridiculous if they aren’t prepared to defend their statements. They either learn to pick their battles carefully, or to stay silent and let the thread get pushed back from the lack of new posters commenting. As new posts come on, the old ones shuffle back until they get deleted. After 1,000 views, the post is locked for new comments.

I told Jon a while back that I would piss them off and make them think so he could sell the positive points of solid surface. Once the stoners get enough of this, they will eventually have to come to the table and agree to stop the lies, and that is what most of their info about solid surface is. Never once have I seen even one of their statements about solid surface be backed by links or some sort of proof. By taking stuff off their own sites and slapping them in the face with it, perhaps it might sink in that any but fools can see the inconsistencies.

Compromise? Work together? I haven’t taken the time to see how they treated Andy over at stoneadvice.com, but from hearing him write about the experience it is what I expected them to do. I have read that site from front to back, reread probally a hundred topics many times. I know what these guys think and how they think. There will be no changing of minds by reason, but they will respect a public spanking.

Taking down and hiding info, I can not imagine doing that. Many homeowners were using and following that black list. It was a good, honest, balanced thread on difficult to work stones AND stones that should never be used. Taking it out of public view does three things, keeps it from being used against them, prevents new fabricators from learning about difficult and bad stones( which means more hack jobs and more bad press for stone), and makes them look dishonest as I claim they are. Before, I sent people over there all the time, even posted about it a lot here.

For the record, we have never once used the black list to slam stone. I keep a copy on the wall of the office for quick reference to check customers choices before we quote the job. I have never used it on the SSA granite issue pages, as I well could have. What caused the uproar and hiding of the thread was that when people asked about stones that were on the list, I would mention that it was on the black list and to go ask about the stone at stoneadvice.com.

Tom, I am telling you tat I am almost certain that Kevin is the same guy that blasted Andy. I know the style, know the arguements and if you click on and read all his posts, it is obvious both are the same guy. If wrong, I will apologize.

Andy, respectfuly, where is the problem on both sides? Specifically, where is the problem on our side? Over at the SSA, there are one or two items on the granite issue pages that I wouldn’t use tommorow in a debate of granite problems, because they aren’t fully researched on my end or I can see that they could be turned about and I haven’t prepared an answer that I am satisfied with. And what do we have to work out with Kevin Noel? He slammed you, called the bunch of us toadies for Corian, which someone with any experience on this board knows is so far off base, hell they would have to work hard to miss the issfa debates of last spring and learn that Issfa was brought into being because of corian running roughshod over fabricators.

Amoung the points that I thought of when starting the brawl with the stoners, or better worded, set up the enviroment where they would start the brawl, was that they would follow me back. I mentioned fabnet numerous times, full well knowing that any that wanted to discredit me would be liable to check out the site. By then, most of the really good stuff was buried in the CMS section, which was not good cause it would prove my point. In the end, knowing that this is a unbiased site for all materials and anyone with an open mind would be impressed, I made sure they could find it. Worst case was that traffic would build, including stoners joining so they could read the member sections as they did.

The stone guys here are of a different breed. Many have been helpful, and the closest ANY have come to disagreeing with the negative stone info was Guybor the other day, and that was pretty mild. It was good that he felt comfortable enough to speak his mind, but that didn’t prevent me from challenging his point. Talk back, if you have the facts on your side, you might get me to change my mind, or at least shut up if I am wrong…….

Gene talks about pussyfooting or walking on eggshells. Well, all know by now that none will accuse me of even trying not to. Even my customers say that I am blunt and like dealing with Christian better than me. Women are better at this, use a lot more words and soft pedal. Most of us guys respect knowing where each other stand more than saving our feelings. Guy, Girl thing, go figure… Typing is work, takes time to write this stuff, if I can use one word to get across twenty, cool, might not time out and lose an hours work when I go to post.

All of which leads to this question. Is the solid surface industry composed of a bunch of wimps or is there something about the trade that draws conservative type people that keep quiet and don’t make waves? Specifically, why has our industry taken such a beating for so long without a major uprising resulting in a concerted effort to change things? Why did our industry association turn out like it did? Why did we lose control over our only magazine and show?

Okay, multi material shop is a very good answer for the last two questions. Kevin Cole has convinced me that he was leading in front of us when he started including stone in the magazine, still wonder why solid surface couldn’t support a trade magazine on it’s own.

Geezzz, forget trying to work with those that are ignorant of solid surface and quartz. Let them do their chart and we will do ours. First time I see one of theirs linked to over on a consumer site, I will pick it apart in a few hours, posting links to their own site to prove the lies.

[Andy Graves]

Al,

I received an email from Kevin and I it was merely a case of being passionate about a product and ones livelihood. Can’t blame him, we have all done it in the past. Let me assure you that all is fine.

I agree with a lot of what you do and say and appreciate all you have done for the solid surface industry. However, we both have different approach to the same end. We both want to get rid of the irrational, BS, that is posted on the different websites from both sides of the aisle.

I don’t like a study that blatantly disregards solid surface but includes countertop materials that account for only about 1% of the overall counter tops.

I don’t like the comparisons on solid surface websites that makes it seem that granite is a useless counter material. When done properly it can be great.

There seems to be much confusion and ignorance on both sides of the fence.

My intention was to extend and olive branch and see what comes of it. Many people say I drink too much Kool-Aid but it has served me well in the past years. I have never had a person deny me any information that I have asked for working here on the FabNet and I will continue to try to build bridges. At the end of the day I may be wrong and wish I would have taken your path but I think we will all end up in the same place eventually.

[Lenny E]

Dear Andy,

I would never accuse you of drinking the Kool Aid, but come hades or high water, I think I can get u to drink a shot of snake wine someday! followed by Brrrrrrrrrrrrr! Cough Cough, that was some good snake!

B Rgds,

Lenny

[Fabritek]

Okay….

So the guy needed a nap. So have I at times here on Fabnet, yet what you rant into at stoneadvice.com was no different than I expected. Was it a smart move, of course not, they should have taken the olive branch and ran with it.

Granted some solid surface sites might over reach, but they are in the minority while almost all stone sites have the exact same info, even the same format, sometimes verbatium. This is an organized effort, no doubt in my mind.

Andy, what you are doing with Fabnet will build credibility with consumers and designers, as well as the media. I applaud the effort to build a stone section here, one that questions posed will be answered by those experienced in all the materials, thus avoiding the lies.

No way would I have written that first stone article for you were I dead set against granite. I just strongly feel that the battle is not between stone and solid surface but between stone only sellers and multi material shops. The fact that we have some strong stone sellers here and they have agreed to allow solid surface fabricators to have a say tells so much about both them and the culture of Fabnet.

Not knocking the attempt, noble idea.

[Gene McDonald]

Al, This post below mentions my name as if i pussyfoot and eggshells and stuff, did you think I said you did? That other dude whoever his real post name is the one spreading it thin. I started thinking you misunderstood me as if I was calling you a cat that spreads it thin….what a laugh you spread it on thin, I was enjoying the new stone members posts and the reason they are here Al is because you poked them with the truth!, between all i read about your posts and the stone sites, Lenny and Jon talking about all kinds of SS specked everywhere, AL, its working, SS is coming back full swing! Anyway Im no pussyfooting panzy, damn that was funny Al, kinda hurt dude,talk to ya later

[William Yanneck]

Gene, wasn’t thinking about you when I wrote that, sorry. More about the industry in general.

My bad,,,,,,

[Gene McDonald]

i know Al, I know, I just always want to make sure i am not misunderstood, or even insinuating i am putting you down, If I disagree with something you do, I’ll let you know, and i expect you to do the same to me. I always type away when i get passionate about a subject and then also trying to make sure the post won’t get deleted by arrogant language, i don’t even proofread the stuff, i just click on to the update button, then re-read later and i’m like “what the ____?”Did i say that S**T? I am committed to the SSA and it’s not some little Mickey mouse membership to me, its a committment! and a valuable website tool to keep from having to explain all that stuff to someone, we all have it for refrence….I’m not into tattoos but if i were the SSA logo would be on my neck! So i feel like a soldier for the SSA , We look out for each other. Just like we do on fabnet….Is there a way or number to keep track of the SS alliance website hits, i give it out to help people understand why there are those of us who still keep selling Solid Surface…Think about it….. if its a Sh**tty product what some think, why do they keep making it? check out the http://www.solidsurfacealliance.org Get the Truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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