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Ok getting ready to buy a CNC. Not sure of the brand just yet but looking and leaning towards the AXYS 7012. Now for vacuum hold down. I really dont want things moving so what power do I need and what is the difference. One company is telling me they will provide a 25hp hold down and AXYS is telling me 10hp is plenty. So whats the deal. What hp do all of you use.
Thanks, Travis
Also if anyone has any advice on cnc feel free to send me an email. I have never owned one and they are alot of money so I want to make sure I do this right.
Hi Travis,
I am also about to order my first CNC. I have posted many questions on another thread and gotten many informative responses from FabNet members who have CNC’s.
Some members on the Net have 30HP and some have less. Each has reasons why they feel their choice is right. Several different types of pumps are in use which may affect the results achieved in each situation. AXYZ says their 10HP dry vane pump is sufficient for the task. When talking to them at the show I questioned them several times about only needing 10HP to do solid surface. They kept telling me 10 is OK but if I felt later that more is required a second 10 can be added.
In fact the machine I saw at a show a week before in my area had a two pump system, but only one ever came on while we were cutting SS. The system monitors the vacuum and only turns the second pump on when suction drops below a certain level.
Andy has mentioned that things deteriorate as the spoil board starts to plug up with dust and the filters need to be cleaned. Makes sense, but I guess each person has to balance cost, maintenance cycles and power availability.
Paul
Hi Jon,
The system I’m purchasing is a 5×14 bed with a 10HP Quick Change router, a 10HP dry vane pump which can be upgraded to 2 10’s if and when needed along with a few little options like 15 HP phase inverter, pop up reference pins, pressure foot, brush foot etc.
The installed price including training is $70,000.00 Canadian dollars. (about 60,000.00 US).
Add another 3 to 5 K for wiring, transportation etc.
Paul
Paul, dont know if it would help you out but I think axys wants about 3200 for there phase converter. I have one because my old shop was single phase. Came off of a midwest automation cs4330 machine. If it would work I could cut that price in half. I am looking at the 7012 machine and about the same money. Of course the 7012 is only about 4k more than the 5012. Seems to me that it is worth the extra expense to step up to the 7012.
Travis, I know enough about electricity to be dangerous and should never be trusted with it, but I think a phase converter either drives through more power, or severely limits your add-on capabilities, does it not?
I’m just asking.
Tom, I think your right. 3 phases of 240 vot at lets say 20amps would equal 1 phase at around 60amps. So the phase converter is simply letting more amps flow through a single or in this case double 240 volt line. I guess in this case it would equal 1.5 times the amps because all your losing is one hot leg. Again I am no expert on exactly how they work and I am even more thankfull that I have 3 phase and dont have to worry about it anymore.
Travis,
I have the TurboVAC 425 CLICK HERE Sometimes I feel the vacuum is not enough.
I was thinking can you ask AXYZ for list of fabricators that have there machine ? Ask them if they think a 10 hp is good enough.
Travis,
We have an AXYZ 5012 and we only purchased the Becker 10HP Dry Vane. It performs perfectly fine for our needs.
If you compare the Becker 10HP to Andy’s TurboVac 20HP, on the surface, Andy’s would seem to be the better vacuum system. However, although the TurboVAC is pushing 425 CFM as opposed to the 173 CFM of the Becker, you have to look at the pressure of each system.
The level of vacuum is often measured in inches of mercury. A perfect vacuum results in a mercury level of 30″ The TurboVAC at maximum pressure is only capable of 15″ which is not nearly as much as the 25″ produced by the Becker. If you look at the other pumps on the MultiCAM page you will notice that their 15HP and 10HP high pressure pumps can pull up to 24″. Also notice the uses for each item. I believe that a fixtured part implies more hold down needed than nested manufacturing.
I think it is important to not go by sheer HP, but a combination of pressure and CFM. When we bought our CNC, someone told us that you needed 40HP to get good vacuum, but I cut out parts out of a square foot of material without problems. And if you do have problems with leaks, then just do an onion skin and trim up your parts, and there is no need to spend the extra thousands on a larger pump until you can use your machine and determine if you actually need it.
What Dennis says is basically what I have been hearing from several local people who deal with vacuum pumps. (not necessarily for CNC)
A 20 – 40 HP pump costs considerably more than the 10HP Becker, requires two to four times as much power, takes up more space, and makes more noise. If AXYZ is wrong and I do need more suction I can add a second 10HP pump tied to the system with a controller that turns the second pump on only when required.
The added advantage to a two pump system is that should one pump fail, the second is still available for production until the other is repaired.
Paul
I do have a 5012 AXYZ and a 10 HP pump. So far I have not had a problem with anything moveing unless I forget to turn the pump on. The machine is about a year old. Do not pay for the machine in full untill you are happy and run the machine a little that way if you have any problems they will get them fixed faster. On the phase converter I bought one from American Phase Converterfor $1000.00 and they are built for CNC machines and is a 20 HP. Make them show you a seam Quality cut before they leave your shop. Any qustions fel free togive me a call. 1-406-538-2000
Wade
hey travis,
i dont know if you have purchased a cnc yet or not but they are great. after the learning curve. i run 2 in my shop, a destiny from park which i absolutely love and a cne automotion. i would suggest the park any day of the the week. you cant beat there service and support. you can check out the other guys if you would like http://www.cncmotion.com but i would steer clear of them. as far as suction i run blick on everything and pull about 24 psi. nothing has ever moved. hope you have great success and email with any questions.
lee
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