[Tom M]

I learned something today. As it was more a concern for fabricators, not AZI’s, I didn’t pay much attention, but it was part of this meeting with DuPont, and I paid more attention.

When determining whether a sheet is granted “acceptable” status, one quadrant of the top is a gimmee. In favor of the Manufacturer. We’re talking 25% of tthe sheet can be bad, as long as it stays in it’s quadrant, and the sheet is still considered acceptable, as long as the other three quadrants are good.

There is a specific formula for fleck sizes and bloches in various color ranges that earn the material the up or down thumb. I remember formica trying this with laminate (probably still does).

I can’t help but compare it to “how many rat hairs are acceptible in your food”.

Okay, maybe not so bad.

I have to give DuPont credit for making sure we understand this. Do other manufacturers have similar standards? It might be nice to have standards for each brand posted here in the Doc section.

Surprised the hell out of me.

Tom

[Wags]

I have handled two other brands of Quartz in the last few years. I have not heard of this, they may have it but not as a written or spoken policy. Without trying to sound like Im bashing any product, Zodiaq is going through some problems. FTR I do NOT sell any quartz product currently, so this is not from some other motivation. From what I have heard, they are getting material from 4 different plants. This is also why you see sheets in different sizes. I know color has been a major issue with them, as it has been with Cambria. Im sure both of these companies will eventually get these problems worked out. I know Cambria has told at least one distributor (i was there) that if they ship it, its considered good material and blotches or other “imperfections” are not cause for a credit. These kind of problems are not good for the industry and both of these companies are quality producers, which will clear this up.

All that said, Quartz is not the “perfect” product some would suggest it is. All products have pros and cons… Consistency is not a Quartz chariteristic. It is interesting they admit this, must be a bigger problem then we know.

[Andy Graves]

If this is the case, do you have to pay for the entire sheet if one quadrant is bad or do you just work around it?

[Matt Dufinetz]

“There is a specific formula for fleck sizes and bloches in various color ranges that earn the material the up or down thumb. I remember formica trying this with laminate (probably still does). “

Tom, what are you talking about. This has never been the policy of Formica for laminate. We follow the NEMA specification for dirt or contaminates in laminate. Get the facts straight before claiming something Formica does or does not do. We produce millions of square feet of laminate every day. It is possible we miss a sheet or two sure, but comparing this to rat hairs in food. Please you’ve got to be kidding. I was not aware of anyine eating laminate these days.

[Tom M]

Matt,

I am very careful when I make claims. When I doubt something I will almost always say that I’m not sure, or words to that effect.

You might want to check your history before you jump on me.

I saw the sheets you used for guidelines. I saw how the flecks were printed out with different sizes and the mention of different spacing. I cut the samples out and sent them into headquarters to be checked. Now I have a choice to make: do I believe you or my own lying eyes?

I don’t know how long you have been in the industry, but please don’t tell me I never saw something I remember quite well.

If the sheet is NEMA generated, and Formica uses it as the standard, how is that any different?

The comparison to rat hair in food is a bit of hyperbole to make the point. It speaks to the comfort one has when hearing how much of a defect is not a defect. I trust the readers know the distinction between laminate and food [edit: I was actually refering to the Estone] . I trust you can deal with it as well.

Side note: Was malamine really one of the ingrdiants found in the bad cat food?

(that has absolutely no connection with Formica or any other laminate/panel manufacturers, whatsoever)

Tom

[Matt Dufinetz]

You are absolutely correct I screwed up in my response. I opened my big mouth before thorougly read the post you made. I rushed to defend the company I work for. I was thought you where refering to the quadrant thing for estone and thought you were saying laminate was the same. There is a chart for acceptable contaminants in laminate based on size and frequency. I was wrong to to jump on you about this and I apologize.

Side Note:

Melamine does come in different forms. It is commonly used in fertilizer in it’s raw state due to it’s high nitrogen content. When we take melamine and add other chemicals to make melamine resin it becomes a co-polymer and completely changes. After the chemical reaction it is no loger harmful.

Again, I apologize for my response and hope you can accept my apology.

[Tom M]

You made up for it with that awesome bit of trivia.

Melamine as fertilizer? What is it in its original(?) state?

To get back on topic – it was claimed, as a comparison to Silestone and Cambria, that Zodiaq has a better warranty coverage. I have never done that much research to see what the difference is, but they say it has to do with installation and staining.

They are no longer covering things such as supplemental repairs (wall surfaces, cab. removal/replacement, seam appearance, other products affected, etc.) It is also limitted to only kitchen repairs – no other rooms or places. They claim this brings it to industry standards.

There are some awesome colors coming out after KBIS. In Corian too. The best are in the Private Collection.

There was also mention of a new product Sieffi (sp?) an Italian company is producing. it is called Okite (sp?) o-kee-tay(?).

Look for it soon. Does anyone else know anything about it?

Again, I am focusing on Zodiaq only because the meeting was a DuPont meeting. I want to give them credit for shining some daylight on this. I can also say there are a fair number of fabricators who are pretty upset with the quality the sheets have had recently. the canadian plants (smaller sheet sizes) are the main target.

Tom

[Tom M]

Matt – also:

There was a tag-team tech crew at Formica once. I think their names were Wayne (Green?) and Merril (?). The two were fun and smart. The best I had seen. Do I have their names right, and are they still in the game?

I may have even asked this before. If so, sorry about the repeat.

Tom

[Kevin Cole]

“There was also mention of a new product Sieffi (sp?) an Italian company is producing. it is called Okite (sp?) o-kee-tay(?).

Look for it soon. Does anyone else know anything about it?”

Sieffe has been around for quite awhile, from what I know, Tom. I have been told the company produces a lot of private label quartz surfacing for several “MAJOR” manufacturers. I know the company makes more than 70 colors/textures. They were trying to find a distributor in the U.S. to sell directly, but I think they hooked up with DuPont for a new line of colors that have some veining and alternate particulate looks. You can find contact information for the company’s U.S. arm, I believe in Texas, in the Buyer’s Guide on http://www.surfacefabrication.com. You might be able to find a direct link to that directory on this site, too.

By the way, everyone, I apologize for not being on the board more lately, I have hardly been home since the SFD Expo in Orlando, as there were several shows back to back to back. I am done traveling for awhile now and will be following up with a lot of you I have spoke with in the past couple of months. The good news is I found a lot of great stuff to put in the magazine, that I think you will all enjoy.

Kevin (editor@surfacefabrication.com)

[Tom M]

Thanks for the info, Kevin.

The colors they are making for DuPont have lots of movement, but more marble than granite.

Nice stuff. I wouldn’t be surprised if you could get some .jpg’s from DuPont.

Glad your back. I just got the email blast for the latest issue.

Tom

[Kevin Cole]

Actually there’s info about it in the May issue, which mailed out yesterday. The online version on our site also has a photo of the new Okite stuff and some info on it http://www.surfacefabrication.com/publication/index.jsp?issueId=19 in the New Colors & Materials write-up….

Kevin

[Tom M]

Kevin,

I can see the private collection colors there, but neither the concrete collection Corian (underwhelming, IMHO) or the new Zodiaq (pretty cool). Did I miss it?

Tom

[Tom M]

Holy crap!

Did Al get a write-up in SF mag?

Way to go Al!!!

Although why show your ugly mug when Christina was available?

P.R., it’s all about the P.R.

[Kevin Cole]

Reviewing it, I guess you are correct about what is shown in the photo — I tried.

As for Al, he was a great interview and the article turned out nicely. I think everyone here will like what he had to say.

Thanks Al.

–Kevin

[Gordon Shell]

Congrats on the profile Al, very impressive.

[Author]

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