[Reuben Hoff III]

Tom,

I have to go with one seam becouse that is all the customer wants. So I am stuck trying to figure out the best location and that has been my debate with myself. I have thought hard about one peice but something just doesn’t feel right and i have learned when I get that feeling to not try it cause something will go wrong.

So I think I have decided to go with over the dishwasher seam. I think this will be the area that gets stuff slid across it the least. The spot left to the sink hs the Fridge with left hinge if I remember correct and the sink has the small bowl on the left. So I envision the left of sink area catching stuff going in and out of fridge and also collecting the dishes before going into the Dishwasher. I know way to much thought for a laminate top, but I gotta make sure I give them the best they can get in situations like this.

[Tom M]

Reuben, by now you have developed a gut.
Okay, I didn’t mean it to come out that way, but you have instincts, and it is best to follow them.

Good luck with the job. This is one of “those” jobs.

[Un-Authorized]

Posted By Kelsey Crisp on 20 Nov 2008 07:12 AM
Joe,  If you were teaching that class you would also try to get the best senario out there. Sure Steve has done it, me too,,,,  but I’m sure his point was don’t if you don’t have too..

Kelsey:

One of the best attributes of solid surface is its incredible yeild. Seams should be placed for convenience and speed of installation and material yeild; both put money into fabricator’s pockets.

If I taught a technical class, that would be lesson one.

Joe

[cory boots]

Are you going to use a side splash on the oven cab?  If so why can’t you cut the top 1/2″ short and apply the bevel on site?  I may understand the layout but this is what I would do.

[Reuben Hoff III]

Q top,

Thanks for the thought. There is no sidesplash and all backsplash will be tile.

[Bill Wolle]

Kelsey and Joe,

This conversation really belongs under solid surface (Andy, you might want to move this and the related comments).

In teaching fabrication, there are a few considerations…

1. Teach what makes a strong job that will not fail.
2. AND helps you be profitable.
3. AND what meets manufacturer’s warranty requirements.
4. AND with a process (or optional processes) that you have the tools to perform.
5. AND an easy enough process(s) that others in your shop can perform it.
6. AND is consumer acceptable.

Hopefully, these will all correspond to the same thing, but no 2 people are the same and will have the same situation so you should be somewhat flexible. You must also consider what you are teaching, for whom, and under what circumstances. Anything taught under the auspises(sp) of an “official” fabrication training program carries responsibility from the “teaching” body. An example: I teach you (at the ISSFA “TFT” class, by the way, I don’t teach there anymore) that it is acceptable to place a seam over a diswasher and you do that on a job and the seam fails. Oh, by the way, the material is one of several that do not allow seams over dishwashers under any circumstances (and by the way, a few manufacturers DO allow seams over dishwashers). The failure is classed “fabricator error” and you are responsible for the repair. Could you not require me as the teacher and/or the entity I work for pay for the repair? The answer is LEGALLY, YES, it is my and the entity I work for’s responsibility.

There is a difference between what is taught at an “official” training program and what is discussed on a forum like this. Neither is bad. The best “official” program will give and discuss the “rules” and why they are there, give several ways to get there, discuss alternatives and a few “what ifs” and discuss the potential for failure. I have been in cabinetry and solid surface for awhile and have not yet seen the “perfect kitchen”, one where you could do everything by the book. What is the potential for failure with the rules you might have to bend and which “rule” is more important to the long term success of the job?

It is discussions just like this with “real world” fabricators that help change fabrication processes to ones that actually fit in the 6 concepts I mentioned above. One of the things I truely love about this industry is the way fabricators develop new and exciting ways to build things. Let’s keep it up.

[Tom M]

Good points, Bill, but the real world does tend to get in the way often. We follow the guidelines strictly, except in circumstances where you just cannot do so (usually involving seams). The competition weighs the cost of complying with the cost of repair, and we see many failures from guys who would rather pay Karl or Gordon, or Joe $495.00 and not worry about it.

That is where the problem lies.

I have a friend who is a very good fabricator. Back in the day when we would fix our own repairs, warranty or not, when sinks were very expensive (you used to get charged a lot more for many SUB sinks back in the day) he would take the Starlight sinks and level them and glue them in. If he got a failure every 3 sinks, he still made a ton of money and easily justified the repair. His actual record was much better than that.

How can I fault him for his logic?

[Andy Graves]

So Reuben, what did you do?

[Reuben Hoff III]

I went with the two peices. Placed the seam over the dishwasher with a solid plate across the opening and put a couple coats polyurethane on it to seal it in the dishwasher area. I also used water proof wood glue(of course) full coverage, scews on both sides the seam to get perfect level. All this works a lot easier also since I started using the paraligns to pull these seams together also.

Was going to get some pictures but the camera was missing in action. Then when I found it no batteries. The customer was thrilled gave us payment so I guess that is picture enough for now, until we go back to the tile backsplash.

[Author]

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