[Gordon Shell]

As many of you know, I have been with EOS Surfaces since the early, early days, and  we have had great success with the 3cm solid surface line but there is always room for improvement and growth. With the introduction of GEOS we are seeing all new growth and excitement again, next year we will release Cupron enhanced EOS and expect even more growth and excitement.

I would like to ask all of the fabricators here your honest thoughts on 3cm material, and what you would like to see in solid surface products in the near future to grow your business.

I’ll ask these questions……………..

1. Have you worked with 3cm EOS?

2. Did you see advantages or disadvantages with the 3cm thickness? If so what were they?

3. If you could make a change to 3cm solid surface what would it be?

4. If you could make a change to 1/2″ solid surface, that would grow your business, what would it be? Price is obvious, lets think outside the box…..

I know asking these questions, in a public forum, can open up a huge can of worms for any manufacturer, I hope that you will offer honest answers to help us better our products and the solid surface industry. I am in the field everyday with fabricators and get a lot of feedback but I think some of the top talent in the industry is here on the board and I value your input.

If you would like to answer any of this confidentially please feel free to send me a private message.

Thanks in advance for your input! (I think )

[Andy Graves]

On 1/2″ material, I don’t like the 30″ width. 32″ would be better. 12′ long is also a bit excessive. I think a piece that is more like 10′ – 11′ would be better. Maybe the same 30 square feet for one sheet but it would be wider.

Have not used the 3cm material and probably won’t because it doesn’t work great for unlevel cabinets which is what you see in California.

[Gene McDonald]

I would love for youse to make a Translucent 3 cm material so I dont hafta worry about seam blocks, buildup etc…and if its dark color..get rid of the ATH filler so when it scracthes it scracthes clear…dark brown acrylic..doenst matter how we make it look ..it scratches a different color which makes people think its white material that we painted black

I hear a company that has a patent on the clear ATH filler and why they wont release is beyond me..people will pay the money..but when a black piece of ss scratches white..its wacked

stainless scratches and people dont mind…but if it scracthed black…then it would be a problem

half inch solid surface sux…too much work for low profits..I think glue MFG’s would really lobby to not promote 3cm huh??..ur sheets come with a tube of toothpaste glue…no guns, tips, spring clamps, substrate, paint for translucent materials, seam blocks which some dingbat MFG’s want us to cut both edges on a 45, not too mention its really not solid all the way thru..just the sheet is, i think it should be called solid sheet..not solid surface

but wait theres more of my gripe brewing..hahahaha

[Steve Mehan]

I have used 3cm EOS, quite a bit of it and have posted some of the issues that I have had with the product here on FabNet.
I was interested 1st in the product because of the claim of time saving, no build up and less adhesive use and they are claims that are true.
I watched a video promoting the product as haveing a finished sanded deck and a peel sheet to also eliminate time. Well that’s one thing I can say I have never seen, ever. It’s unfortunate because with the weight of the material just sliding a top sheet over a sheet below it causes scratching and brusing both of which I will say I have had on just about every sheet of EOS I have ever used. Unlike quartz or stone which is shipped on Aframes EOS is shipped flat on pallets. I would say that unless the sheets are manufactured with a peel sheet and are carefully packaged and shipped, it almost impossible to recieve sheets that are scratch or blemish free. Think increased sanding time……….
Cutting and finishing sink cutouts is my least desirable thing to do with the 3cm product its just all the much more material to rout and sand. Even with new or newly sharpened 3cm bowl bits. But it is to be expected with thicker material.
I have always found good particle distribution in all of the sheets we have used.
I have not found that to be the same with color consistency. Again this would be a manufacturing quality control issue that could be corrected.
Inventory, inventory, inventory.
So if your asking how to improve the 3cm EOS product. I would recommend peel sheets and better packageing for shipment and better quality control during manufacturing for color consistency.

[Gordon Shell]

Thanks guys, all good feedback for us to look at.

Andy,
We used to have 30″x10’x3cm and 36″x10’x3cm sheets in our offering but no one seemed to order the 36″ sheets so our inventory went up and over time you run into color match issues between old 36″ inventory and new 30″ inventory. We eliminated the 36″ sheets about 5 years ago due to lack of interest.
Wilsonart SS ran a wide sheet program all the way up to 60″ wide sheets, I believe they have eliminated the program due to lack of interest.
Let me know the breakdown on a 32″ sheet and where you would utilize the added 2″. EOS can produce any width sheet up to 60″, we are not opposed to wider sheets if they will help the fabricator, I would like to hear thoughts on this issue.
you say that you cant use 3cm in CA because of the unlevel cabinets, what happens with 3cm stone or quartz installs? Would 2cm solid surface be useable?

Gene,
I think everyone is looking for the cure to scratching in SS, we do have some engineers that have some very creative concepts that we are testing but you have to walk a fine line on your sheet contents, ATH levels effect the flame rating and other properties of the sheet. We are working on some very kool things for 2012, stay tuned
BTW we do have a translucent sheet that we have made for our Western Canada Distributor, Ocean Blue 3cm. you don’t have to paint the back because its pretty tough to see thru 3cm material, its also so thick that back lighting would require a lamp from a lighthouse. The distributor likes it so we make it in quantity for his market, I will try and post a pic in this thread later.

Steve,
We removed the protective film from the sheets about 4-5 years ago for a few reasons:
A. we had some fabs that put the sheets on their CNC with the film still on and it destroyed their spindles.
B. If the sheets sat stacked for longer periods of time, the weight of the sheet would press the protective plastic to the EOS sheet so hard that it became nearly impossible to remove the protective sheet.
C. The protective sheet was not quite thick enough to protect against foreign materials that got between the sheets.

This year we hired a dedicated shipping manager and have implemented some new packing methods to help prevent shipping damage, still not perfect but 100% improvement over our early years. In 2012 we will be bringing on regional distribution with dedicated trucking, this will be a major improvement over shipping common carrier across the country.

 

[Andy Graves]

Gene,

The 3cm is great for some situations. Keep in mind that 3cm is heavier and will take more installers on the job. This increases the cost.

[Andy Graves]

Gordon, the 36″ width is a waste, we hate it. But, the 30 in width is a bit to narrow with 1/2″ material.

I like the 2cm concept because you only have one layer of buildup for a kitchen but can do a bathroom without the buildup.

I think thinner will be the new norm not thicker. Thinner uses less material and saves manufacturers on cost with shipping and raw materials.

What about doing everything with 3/8″ material?

[Gene McDonald]

Andy, my coolest brother from another mother, keep in mind the half inch material will require more fabricators in the shop which will increase your costs..kinda like what you said but I hit the ball back to ya

second point..is you will need to hire fabricators skilled in SS as oppossed to have installers with arms that are familiar with carry granite, etc. and they dont have to learn the fundamentals of the spring clamp..all 3cm installers hafta know is lift and put here carefully..Ill do the seam part with gorilla grips..

plus I charge my workers a fee for not having to join a gym…they get their workouts lifting 3 cm…teaching someone SS fabrication…is very costly…dont even make me bring up what it cost to go learn from Borian…i mean Corian..

[Gordon Shell]

Posted By Gene McDonald on 22 Dec 2011 02:09 PM
Andy, my coolest brother from another mother, keep in mind the half inch material will require more fabricators in the shop which will increase your costs..kinda like what you said but I hit the ball back to ya

second point..is you will need to hire fabricators skilled in SS as oppossed to have installers with arms that are familiar with carry granite, etc. and they dont have to learn the fundamentals of the spring clamp..all 3cm installers hafta know is lift and put here carefully..Ill do the seam part with gorilla grips..

plus I charge my workers a fee for not having to join a gym…they get their workouts lifting 3 cm…teaching someone SS fabrication…is very costly…dont even make me bring up what it cost to go learn from Borian…i mean Corian..

I like your thinking Gene, can I hire you to sell for me :).

[Gordon Shell]

Posted By Andy Graves on 22 Dec 2011 11:45 AM
Gordon, the 36″ width is a waste, we hate it. But, the 30 in width is a bit to narrow with 1/2″ material.

I like the 2cm concept because you only have one layer of buildup for a kitchen but can do a bathroom without the buildup.

I think thinner will be the new norm not thicker. Thinner uses less material and saves manufacturers on cost with shipping and raw materials.

What about doing everything with 3/8″ material?

Thanks for this input Andy, it is very useful in our process of improvement, stay tuned.

[Gordon Shell]

Posted By Gene McDonald on 21 Dec 2011 05:02 PM
I would love for youse to make a Translucent 3 cm material so I dont hafta worry about seam blocks, buildup etc…and if its dark color..get rid of the ATH filler so when it scracthes it scracthes clear…dark brown acrylic..doenst matter how we make it look ..it scratches a different color which makes people think its white material that we painted black

I hear a company that has a patent on the clear ATH filler and why they wont release is beyond me..people will pay the money..but when a black piece of ss scratches white..its wacked

stainless scratches and people dont mind…but if it scracthed black…then it would be a problem

half inch solid surface sux…too much work for low profits..I think glue MFG’s would really lobby to not promote 3cm huh??..ur sheets come with a tube of toothpaste glue…no guns, tips, spring clamps, substrate, paint for translucent materials, seam blocks which some dingbat MFG’s want us to cut both edges on a 45, not too mention its really not solid all the way thru..just the sheet is, i think it should be called solid sheet..not solid surface

but wait theres more of my gripe brewing..hahahaha

Here you go Gene, translucent blue 2cm EOS. We make it for Western Canada, I’m not a big fan of it, I think it looks milky but I’m no designer. The good thing with EOS is we can create whatever colors we like, we just need a customer to buy them. Keep up the suggestions, I love the feedback.

[KCWOOD]

I don’t have a clue why noone makes a 5/8″ sheet X 32″.  One layer, we get a 3cm thickness, rip 2″ edge buildup and a 4″ backsplash.  Quick easy and the same thickness as the quartz that is kicking the ass of solid surface in my area….

[Gordon Shell]

Posted By Kelsey Crisp on 22 Dec 2011 06:14 PM

I don’t have a clue why noone makes a 5/8″ sheet X 32″.  One layer, we get a 3cm thickness, rip 2″ edge buildup and a 4″ backsplash.  Quick easy and the same thickness as the quartz that is kicking the ass of solid surface in my area….

If you went 3/4 (2cm) you could do single thickness for bath, and 2cm kitchens, and add a layer for 1 1/2 Kitchens? Even less labor…………

[KCWOOD]

so why does solid surface have to appear thicker than the stone products in the kitchens and thinner than the stone products in the baths?

My 3cm stone sales outsold my solid surface,, 3 years ago it was the opposite.

 

[Lenny E]

@ Andy..if you like 32 inch widths I can do in any color. I can only do container quantities, maybe we could hook up a shared container between multiple fabbers on here. Right now I can do in Polyblend. The acrylic project is coming to a close soon. Next Year I can do in acrylic, cheaper than Livingstone and just as good.

@ Gordon..you dont peelcoat the 3 CM? Thats insane! I have manufactured 3 CM for years and always peelcoat it with none of the problems you describe. Some advice from an old consultant…..You need to investigate another peelcoat..duh!

[Author]

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