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I disagree Brian,
Consumers and designers are fickle entities. Always looking for the newest thing on the horizon. Granite and solid surface will always be a part of the mix, like laminate.
Laminate is an old technology, over a century old but still makes up over 50% of surfacing installed (on a sq ft basis) due to its pricepoint. Granite, SS, E stone etc. will always be around.
Granite had its day in the sun, and its not amazing the fickle consumer is ready to move onto other things.
For example, in China people are sick to death of granite. Its been the surfacing of choice for millenia and people there are tired of it. SS is growing by leaps and bounds in the worlds second largest economy. We can hardly keep up.
In China apparently, SS and E stone are the material of the future.
I field questions from fabricators from India ,middle east to asia wanting to learn more about SS and how to grow there business. I believe SS is about to begin a resurgence. Lenny good points.
Jon,
Dont get all hopeful, the China consumer does not want Corian, they like China, Lenny driven and produced solid surface. Those folks are very nationalistic and getting more so daily!
However I could entertain the idea of having you over here as the T from guru for a T form seminar. What are your thoughts?
Posted By Jon Olson on 18 Jan 2011 02:38 PM
I field questions from fabricators from India ,middle east to asia wanting to learn more about SS and how to grow there business.Either that or they are just catching up to what we were doing here 15 years ago.
As the price point of solid surface drops, more people are using it and it will be the standard over tile or laminate in new housing projects. That is a lot of solid surface.
The price of granite is falling way faster than the price of Corian. I’m not saying that it’s going to drop to laminate levels but the availability of quality slabs is huge. There are hundreds of colors of granite that we sell at a price that’s right around a C level Corian color. The remnants that we sell are usually less than a B level Corian top.
That’s without importing and stocking our own material also. There are a number of granite suppliers out there that would sell me containers of material all day for $5-$6 per square foot if I had the space to store it.
Designers are tired of granite. There are so many new surfaces to play with
Here’s how I sell SS. Hey Mrs.. designer look at this cool solid surface bowl that’s not offered anywhere .They love the bowl buy it and pit it in a SS top. Add value to a top add value to there design.
Hey Lenny we need to talk.
Trying to make this a competition between granite and solid surface but I guess that is where we’re going with it.
You could say the same thing about solid surface Brian. Find a solid surface supplier that will sell you a container and it will be way less than granite.
My remnants on solid surface would be lower than granite as well.
I am more talking about main stream fabricators. There are always those on the ends of the pendulum.
Good points though. Always interesting what’s going on in other parts of the country.
Actually Andy you can buy containers of some granites for $2 a sq ft, and you can purchase pre fabbed counters for less than $10 a foot. When there is zero cost of raw material, just the labor to dig it out of the ground and that labor is pennies an hour, its hard to beat. SS will continue to rise in price as it is a petroleum product. There will always be a place for solid surface and the design capabilities, but granite continues to take market share from SS. You may be able to purchase SS for $5 to $6 a foot in qty, but it won’t have the wow factor that the $2 a ft granite will.
Posted By Wags on 19 Jan 2011 10:23 PM
Actually Andy you can buy containers of some granites for $2 a sq ft, and you can purchase pre fabbed counters for less than $10 a foot. When there is zero cost of raw material, just the labor to dig it out of the ground and that labor is pennies an hour, its hard to beat. SS will continue to rise in price as it is a petroleum product. There will always be a place for solid surface and the design capabilities, but granite continues to take market share from SS. You may be able to purchase SS for $5 to $6 a foot in qty, but it won’t have the wow factor that the $2 a ft granite will.
I am not suggesting fuel cost will make both rise equal, but fuel cost will effect both.
The reality is that public perception is the deciding factor. The more we see articles that describe granite as old, or yesterday’s material, the more we will see other materials take market share from the natural stone side.
I think Andy is right. Also I think that it is the interior desecrators who decide what people should like, not the people themselves. People pay them for their opinion, consequently their opinion has value.
Johnny C
Most granite comes in on ships, which cost almost nothing per slab. Marty Davis, owner of Cambria, once stated, it cost him more to move a container of quartz from Mn to Atlanta, than it did Cosentino to move the same container from Spain to Atlanta. So fuel will not effect all products equally, especially when one is made from petroleum products.
Untill something can be added to SS to make it more scratch resistant, people will shy away from it. While it’s design capabilities are great, most kitchens are not incorporating coved splashes, inlays or other design elements.
Granite still has the perceived value of being worth more than other countertop products. Same as early on Corian had the prestige over other products.
Overall, laminate still sells more sq ft than all other products combined.
Wags Laminate scratches and it cant be repaired. I don’t think scratches are an issue. Granite has been around for hundreds of years. It became popular about 13 years ago. It became popular because the design world made it popular. The design world is ready to move on.
Jon, SS actually scratches easier than laminate. Do you think the design world is ready to go back to an 80’s product? Every lunch I have done for Architects and Designers they roll their eyes when Solid Surface is mentioned. Yes they are always looking for the “next new thing” but, as much as I like SS I really don’t think were ever going to see SS hold the position it did in the 70’s and 80’s.
You also have a different perspective Jon. You and Sterling do things that most fabricators will never get the opportunity to do. You are one of the premier fabricators in the country, and hence, you get opportunities others never will. Most fabricators doing small commercial and residential projects see an entirely different clientel than Sterling does.
The average consumer, remodeling their kitchen or bath, will look at granite (ie stone) first and then other products. Whiel the top 1 or 2 percentage of consumers always want ‘whats new” the other 97% still feel granite is a status symbol.
Most people don’t use an interior designer when doing their remodels. They don’t use a CKD either, they use home depot, lowes or a lumber yard to get cabinets and tlypically replace what it there.
Wags, though I am not a big box store fan some of the folks in them are CKD’s. That title doesn’t really impress me though considering your certification can be pulled if you don’t renew your NKBA membership. I have talked to past employees of the big box stores that were laid off and since their NKBA membership was paid for by their employer they were no longer CKD’s, that bullshit in my book, just sayin……………
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