[Andy Graves]

Let me understand you better.

You want me to send out a mass email telling the Fabricator Network members to send an email to CR about the issue?

If I understand you correctly, I think that is a good idea but a little late. I think we should wait and see if we can build some sort of relationship with them. I think complaining often times tends to harden their stance that they did fair testing. They will never say they made a mistake, but they may change the way they test in the future.

Tell me your thoughts.

[Reuben Hoff III]

Andy,

I agree with you on the fact mass complaining only makes them tighten up and less likely for input in the future. We also need to remember that this is a private type group if I still understand the organiazation. In saying that they can pretty much do and say what thay want and if you do not approach them in the correct manner then future hope of communication may be damaged. I suggest we give them about 2 weeks (do to Thanksgiving holiday). If nothing has been done on their behave then we need to try and make contact again and make sure the letter was read and not lost in pile for another complaint oh well. I think the best we can hope for is that maybe they will ask for better testing procedures next time I do not recall these guys admitting to their test ever being flawed or scewd.

Just my 1/2 cents worth

Reuben

[Ali Hosseini]

Perhaps a bigger response, and one more controlled, would be a survey asking if the report was relevant to real world conditions. One click or two and a fabricator could have his voice heard, with little effort involved. It would be a good idea to send a list of names with the survey for credibility.

Good point on hardening their stance with complaints, yet couldn’t the point be made without going negative, from their veiw point? Perhaps suggestions for real world tests, including adding a repair test on all samples after the damage tests are concluded, most shops would volunteer time and mateial. And don’t most magazines and newspapers print corrections, even retractions on a regular basis? To me, that just adds to their credibility. Keep the tone businesslike, supportive, civil and technical and we might make an impact.

Guys, our biggest asset is that most of us do more than one type of top, stress this and we can do something good here for the industry.

[Ron Gennaro]

Rueben, good point about mass complaining, but that I am not advocating as a first response. As far as it being a private group, no way. All they have to sell is their reputation for fair testing products. We don’t have to attack their credibility, just suggest ways the testing could be more accurate in the real world. Don’t forget our experiences with companies listening and responding to posts on this site, they know the internet has shrunk the world and allowed some working stiff like me to publish both compliments and complaints for any interested person to find, easily.

I agree on your plan for insistance, after a short while and two weeks sounds perfect.

Let’s give them this, they test products for a living, so they probally eat and sleep testing like we do counter tops. If approached in the right manner, would you resist improving your counter tops just so you wouldn’t admit that the ones you did in the past weren’t perfect? Not the Rueben I have come to know on this forum, simple self interest would insist on the improvements even if the passion wasn’t there.

Guys, we all are old enough to know the difference between a nice guy and a doormat. The nice guy is nice to himself first and doesn’t take being walked on. We can be polite, even show our interest in true unbiased testing since we KNOW what the best counter top material is, hands down. But we must speak up and no one has more credibility than we who make many different types of counter tops.

Respectfully, Al.

[Tom M]

Andy,
Next time some fool magazine does a hack job like this, would it be possible to throw up a quick survey or response sheet where we can read the article and answer (or ask!) questions of our fellow fabricators, get a quick issues response, and send it to them? It will need to be fast enough to make the next issue (well before publication date, in fact).

Tom

[Reuben Hoff III]

Al ,

You are correct in that we need to continue to appraoch these guys in a profesional way. I guess what my main point was at this late time in response to theoriginal article we should not anticipate them to print any retraction, But we should expect to see more than an electronic generated response at some point.

You are also correct that in the right approach we should expect to see them try and improve their testing. The key will be for us to look ahead now and plan on a response that will let them and others in the future know that we as a group agree and think things need to be looked at in a better manner( more realistic to life situations). Some how can we come up with a survey of recommended testing procedures etc and then can we show it as individuals that support it like a signed petition. It some how needs to not appear as one person just typing a list of names. I am not very computer literate so I’m not even sure it is possible.

Just beleive we have shown them first contact, but need to be prepared to respond and better to start sooner than later. As Al stated we do know people are listening to us here.

Reuben

P.S.

AL when I grow up I want to be able to express myself as well as you do. Thanks for making me think a little more on the subject.

[Eddie DiSilvestro]

Rueben, you must choose. Do you want to grow up or do you want to be a fabricator?

Great point on getting ahead of them for the next report. How about I start a thread on testing?

As far as expressing yourself, you are doing fine.

[Andy Graves]

Below is the Consumer Report response to the letter The Fabricator Network sent.

Dear Mr. Andy Graves:

Thanks for taking the time to contact Consumer Reports®. It is always a
pleasure to hear from our readers!

We appreciate your taking the time to write to us regarding our report on
Kitchen countertops. Your correspondence has provided us with invaluable
feedback on how we’re doing. Please be assured that our readers’ comments
and thoughts help shape the work we do. I will, of course, forward your
correspondence to the appropriate department(s) for their review and
consideration for our future reports.

Thanks again for taking the time to write. Your interest in our work is
greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

Paul Hanney
Customer Relations Representative
927756

[Dennis Holder]

Friggin form letter! “Future reports”???????? How about correcting previous reports that were fraught with error!

[Amy Musso]

yup, form letter. That is why I wanted the letter to be a community effort, signed by dozens or even hundreds of faricators of counter tops. You can’t blow that off, and with the internet and todays media needing fodder for the 24 hour news show, you just never know what would happen.

However, only a handfull of people participated once the prodject was started, so Andy did the right thing by polishing what we had and sending it.

So do we take our thumping without complaint or does someone have an idea to get people to pitch in with letters or comments that can be put into a petition?

If we don’t respond as a group, then we deserve to have our trade trashed by these “experts”.

[Reuben Hoff III]

okqy respone what we should have figured on. Now for other ideas we have some posted already can we combine those again put together testing suggestions for future. Hard part getting info together. Now for getting it signed can we fax around a copy sorta like a chain letter having it signed or is there some way to forward it and show it via email. Just couple ideas to get signed can work depends on everyone.

Reuben

[Jase Cast]

It doesn’t need to be signed personally, just have people agree to have their name or their company name added to the list of supporters, in writing so an automatic response to an email would work, not that I am smart enough to figure out how to do that. A survey would work if the user name could be tracked. Or an opt out but only if an email was sent and sufficent time allowed for an opt out response. Personally, I feel if people won’t participate in this, we might as well drop it.

[Andy Graves]

I believe that this is a good start. We now need to stay on top of this type of thing in the furture and act quicker. Next time we can do exactly what you are saying Al. But we could not let the hard work of the volunteers go to waste and not send anything. I waited until everyone had added their input and then I sent a letter I thought would at least get us noticed.

[Author]

Posts