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I find myself stuck between a rock and a hard place. The person I lease my shop space from has opened a can of worms with the county while applying for a building permit. Seems that since I opened my shop, the county has made many new regulations that apply to shops such as ours. Without going into a long rant, basically we can not have ANY flammable chemicals in the shop unless we spent a ridiculous amount of money adding a spray booth, fire walls, “explosion-proof” electrical and lighting and the list goes on and on.
From my experience, water-based contact adhesive just does not work well. Through my local suppliers I have found a non-flam adhesive that seems to work pretty well, Premier 924N. It is a self contain unit that looks like a propane bottle. It is adhesive and propellant in one system that spray from the bottle with no air hook-up. They spray hose and gun that attach to the bottle seem to work pretty well. It is pretty costly, but I am told that since it requires much less adhesive to work, the cost will balance out in the end. Have any of you been using Premier 924N?
Also, I have no idea what to do about cleaners. Any suggestions?
If I can’t find a way to make this work, I will be forced to move out of the building and basically out of business in this county. I know I could just get some stuff that will pass inspection and then go back to what I am currently using, but if there should be a fire down the road, I think I would really be opening myself up for big trouble. If it is at all possible, I would like to change over to something that will work and stay within these new guidelines.
What of the possiblities of an out building such as a steel Conex box? Basically a steel trailer without the carriage. We see them here all the time. Might work well for storing the solvent stuff.
My partner uses the premier glue and gun and really likes it. I do alot of on site laminate so I use the roller method.
Fred, this amazes me. Every couple of years or so, certain counties in Florida start this push for non-flam glue. They usually start with cabinet shops and move forward. How many shops are in your county? Betcha 90% of them have not been hit with this. It’s another OSHA in bed with the insurance company gig in bed with the county guy. They attemted this is Sarasota county several years ago. I can tell you that vitually no shops(over 200) down there use non-flam. Kinda went away. Might not in your area.
The glue in the cannister that looks like a propane tank works well. Nothing new. Yes pricey, as is the gun. Another option to shoot water based is a stainless steel pogo pump with a stainless gun. Then you can buy 55 gal. drums if that is what you are used to using. Funny thing is that like I said, I see virtually no non-flam being sprayed yet in the past 3 weeks, we’ve had requests for and sold 2 stainless steel pump set ups. Maybe the OSHA wave is on the way back.
Nevert the less, call me on Monday morning and I’ll tell you about some options.
Every couple of years or so, certain counties in Florida start this push for non-flam glue.
Check to see if PVC companies donate heavily to politicians. Non-flam, forced to change to monochlorethane(sp?) solvent got worse than it was with the 111 Trichlorethane. Water based? Maybe in Florida workspaces are air conditioned and the uniformly dry air will work a balanced amount in drying the surface. Up here, in the humid summer, no AC, you need to use a dryer to get the glue set evenly. Contact cement has an amazing open time, but the quality of the bond is affected if not done in a much narrower window. It’s a lot tougher with water based to reach this window.
Fred, can you build an outbuilding to satisfy their code as David suggested? Even if you can attach the building, with the exterior walls being weaker than the connecting wall might satisfy the gummint boys. I assume that fire is main concern, and I’m describing explosion protection, but there is a decreased risk of further damage to the people and contents if a concrete wall stood between them and the fire.
David, Have you ever tried trowelling the sheets and decks? It’s a skill. Maybe a bit of an art. It is a fast way to put glue on material, though.
It looks to me like the propane bottle glue has promise, but I’ve heard that the control gets more squirrely as the pressure drops. I’ve never tried it, so I can’t be sure.
Tom, I rarely see an air conditioned shop in Florida. Most shops buck the non-flam glue push for the reasons you stated.
Tom, I have troweled glue many times only because I didn’t pack the proper roller. I cut a square piece of laminate and use that. Sound barbaric but it works when you find yourself miles from the building store. I mostly use a glue roller that is designed for appyling epoxy. Is the trowel what you guys use? Just yesterday I was asking my partner about the gun/tank set up and he is disposing of it. He said he found if he didn’t use it regularly the glue and gun became a hassle with cleaning and shelf life.
The Conex box (all steel) I mentioned are very inexpensive , in our area a 20′ would cost 1500. and a 40′ would cost 3000. They ship paint ,solvent and other hazerdous materials in them. Oftem see them at commercial sites and many use them for extra storage buildings, at least around here.
We mostly trowel. We would roll if you were applying contact to a vertical panel, etc., but that’s less common.
To be fair, any glue gun that is not used often will have setting/settling issues. I’m not sure that’s the fault of the cannister type only.
I use the “propane ” bottle method and I do have some issues in the last 1/8 th tank or so on spray consistancy. I have had mine set idle for a month before and just get out pocket knife clean little slot in tip and spray away. I was also told to never turn the bottle off until clear out and then put gun immediatly on the new bottle. These also work great for on job laminating once you learn how to control the spray and just do a little extra taping just in case you slip no smell = happy homeowner also.
Reuben
We have been using water base adhesive here for over 10 years(Wilson Art stuff). The only challenge is during the winter you cant load your truck or the water in the glue will freeze and crystallize de-lam. We but it in 5 gallon cans and load it into a 5 gallon pressure pot last a long time.Hey Jon,
Is that the stuff they glue two peices together and then throw it into a bucket of water to show it won’t delam? I had some one tell me about that, but can not remember.
Hello Reuben not sure about that. Its been so long since the sales pitch I cant remember. Years ago we where told that laws would change and water base glue would be the only glue you could use. We thought about it and thought lets just change now. I’ am happy we did one less thing to worry about. Besides that the shop employees benefit from one less harmful chemical. The air quality improved so much we where able to remove our ventilation roof top unit.Jon,
I do not know where your shop is. Do you have humidity like here in FL? I have not used water based here, but have heard nothing but bad things from other fabricators in the area due to the humidity.
Also, you said it will freeze and de-lam in the winter if you load the trucks, do you have a heated shop then? We do not get many hard freeze nights here, but the thought of walking into the shop even one time and seeing 4 or 5 sets of lam cabinets and two racks full of tops had gotten too cold and all the de-lamed is the type of things my nightmares are made of.
If there is some type of water based that well perform well here and is cost efficient I am all for using it. Just don’t know what product to use. With the business climate as tough as it is here now, I do not want to play the try and see games for fear of builders just going to another shop that has not been forced to change over as I am,
Hello Fred .I’ am from Massachusetts. Yes I have a heated shop. We also experience a fair share of humidity during the summer. What kind of problems do you see with the humidity? I know it takes a little longer to dry. We run fans to speed up the process.As far as freezes go Thus only happen once to us. We took precautions after that.Jon,
As I said, I have not used the water based here, but have heard the dry time is crazy long. I have also heard of a lot of delam problems weeks or months after install. Could be the product was not being used correctly, not enough dry time, etc…? Maybe I’ll get a small pail and give it a try. How long do you typically have to wait for dry time? With T600 I am using now, it is only about 3 or 4 minutes.
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