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I just got off ISSFA site reading about the FREE BEER parties they got recognition for (I think they bought all that BEER and food with my membership fee without asking me) Oh well…Anyway on the ISSFA WEBSITE news column i noticed there Hi-macs article says that they were the first to introduce “GREEN”…….WRONG! Avonite had it for years…the fab net article doesn’t say they were first although it does lead you to believe that they are the most recognized environmentally products available thru SCS…Hi-macs only has 12 percent…Avonite has 40 percentrecycled…3x more…I’m not putting them down I just wish hi- macs would re-release the truth. Most of youse who use Avonite probaly already know this ,,Just a GREEN thing and some won’t understand
Good point on the article. Didn’t mean to mislead anyone. Avonite has consistently been the leader in innovative products for the solid surface industry. I think the only difference is that the Avonite is polyester and the HI-MACS is acrylic.
Hi Macs has been very clear, that they are the First ACRYLIC green solid surface. Interesting note, and I had this converstaion with Avonite, cozumel went from 18% to 40% recycled overnight. ummm.. It all depends on how you calculate the % .. weight, volume, etc. can be very misleading.. Its also one of the points on all Green Products, there are no totally independant companies that can rate the total “Green” of a product.
In both of these products, what is “green” or recycled is the particulate. They gind up bad sheets to put into new sheets. A sheet is not 40% particulate, but you can add some “by products” as ATH and call it green..
Now where did I put my smoke and mirrors.. ummmm
Ya know what i find funny is that these Recycled products cost more then the others, I’m on the “GREEN” bandwagon, and I think it’s good to be prepared in case the “GREEN” storm comes my way…if not ,well I picked up some extra knowledge… I always thought when we recycled cans and milk jugs the price would go down…NOPE…Think about it, i llike what Wags brought to light…Imagine one of the many sheet mfg’s just sweep their floor after the weeks work of producing the sheets and just through in everything on the floor before it hardened….would the call it “green”? would it be cheaper cause they don’t need any more labor to crush particulate?…….. They can name it the “BROOM-DROPPINGS COLLECTION” with 41% …lol
Avonite has had recycled products for years. Allow me to tell you a story of what happened about 4 years ago. I was at the Aristect plant in Kentucky, on a tour. They typically pour sheets 63″ +- wide and trim to 60 and then cut in half. I saw dumsters of that cut off 1 1/2″ material (each side) and asked, why don’t you recycled that. I was told they can’t recycle it cause its acrylic. Isaid, ship it to New Mexico (where they make the poly product). It was like I was talking to a screen saver, just a blank stare. Fast forward two years, they now ship that off fall to NM (how green are those trucks?) and grind it and use it in their poly product.
That said, its still recycled, but is it really “green”? How much fuel is wasted shipping from Kentucky to NM? This is the black side of the green movement. There needs to be someway to tell, at a glance, if the product is green in the total cyle from raw material to the final product. I know some that are working on a “wheel with spokes”. This label would be red or green depending on how different aspects of its life are green. Is it green when the raw materials are procured? Is it green in being used close to where the raw materials come from? etc. Much of our ATH comes from overseas, all of our resins are from petroleum, but, we do have a great life span since it can be repaired and replaced. So what is green? How “green” is some green products? Richlite is green because the virgin paper comes from Certified forests, but it also uses petro chemials for resin. Paperstone is recycled paper (50% or 100%) and uses resin from Cashew nuts..
Right now, there is so much hype about green, that no one really knows whats true or not true. I do know that Hi Macs was very conservative on how they figured the recyled product. 12% is about how much particulate is in a sheet, hence the 12% recycled tag. 40% ? ummm… no comment on that.. Whats the old saying, figures don’t lie, but liers can figure?
Who knows whats true.. But much like your “Broom droppings” look at Akeim (sp?) recyled aluminum cuttings.. interesting industry isn’t it… 🙂
Hey Jon, How ya doing?…I don’t cares either but these “GREEN Conscious Architects nad Designers” might seem to steer to the one who has the most experiencemfg green, Hence whoever got green first . The “GREENIES” (A name I made up for people for this movement in our industr )…I hope I don’t get a Stereotyping charge…ha-ha .Anyway Architect & designer/contractor “GREENIES” want to get on this bandwagon and I know personally some of them think Green solid surface is a color…They must have missed the memo…they then do a quick search and WAM they pick the headline…..Anyway I’m an AVONITE fan, But as a consumer myself sometimes I tend to steer to the one who created it first….Hence people still refer to Corian as a material not a Brand.
Tom,
I have to agree with you. Nevamar was doing green way back in the 80’s but the morons never advertized it. Green is here to stay. It is a govt, institutional, trade association industry oriented philosohpy. I kinda think its nice but regardless of your view its here for the time being. NOw as one who drawn philosophical guns down on the powers that be, mostly you always get crushed. SO sit back, enjoy the govt sponsored ride and enjoy the bucks. Figure out how to fill the market.Im currently doing 20+ per centpost industrial recyclables in CHina, a specifiers dream. I doubt the idiots even advetize it. I can accept insane peeps (Im one sort of) but I hate stupid people.
A funny story about Avonite. A great company BTW. Great patterns. Anyway Nevamar and Avonite sued each other over who invented particles in sheets back in the day (a godsend for design, even Corian had to come out with em later). But anyway it is my belief that Nevamar invented them first (from timing), but Avonite did a much better job of documenting the discovery. During the trial a Nevamar guy (Iz Ungar- the guy who hired me at Fountainhead) got up on the stand and was asked how is solid surface made?.by aqn obtuse Avonite lawyer? Geez, he went thru the process of evolution, getting chemicals from trees, the evolution and life cylce of dinosaurs and plankton decomposijg to form oil, the whole chemical refinement process, he testified for days using up all the time, geez it was a hoot and made me laugh. He was grandstanding, having seen the Avonite lawyers had air tix to return home soon. The judge allowed it. Hilarious moment in legal history. Anyway after many years in court, they settled out of court for a paltry sum. In all due fairness, Avonite, won, they did a much better job at documenting the discovery. Only the lawyers got rich. Which is why I document my patents backwards and forwards.
A blast from the past,
Lenny
Lenny,
Awesome story. One I had never heard before. Truth be told, I consider harvest as the first flecked solid surface, but Avonite was the folks that gave us a huge selection. Too bad every fabricator broke his first “L” shaped top when he tried to roll it over. Brittle. I can’t quite remember the timing, but I think Fountainhead came out while Avonite was off the market reformulating.
Tom
Actually Avonite was responsible for the first color also.. Anyone remember what it was ? Also anyone know who the original founders of Avonite was? At least one of them Im sure you know, but for “other endevors”. I had the pleasure of sitting down over a cup of coffee for a few hours with one of them, and discussing how it all came about. Very interesting person and fascinating conversation. Lenny Im sure you know who Im speaking about, but allow me to give one hint, he also was responsible for the Mood Ring in the 70’s! . I know Avonite was before Corian had any particulated colors, they offered white, off white and almost white at the time. AKA Dawn Beige, Olive Mist and Cameo…
Wags,
I would say that Almond was indeed a color, and I think it predates Avonite, I would also consider harvest a color.
Wasn’t solidex out before Avonite (I don’t know for sure). They had colors. How about Quintessa or (later) 2000X?
I can’t remember the other party, but you’re talking about George Ross and his brother, right? The mood ring? Well, I suppose pop culture that gets you wealthy selling rings based on thermal graphic properties is as legit as the magic 8-ball. Oh, and the Ouija board.
I never saw the Apprentice, but I did meet some of the other Ross family members.
Wags,
Hmmm other co founder of Avonite besides G Ross.? Ya got me there. I was able to search and fnd it on the forum from about a month a half ago and also the mood ring reference allows for an easy find no doubt , but thats no fair, I didnt know it off hand. But when an oldie but goodie posts with that info, it will be a good addition to the tread. Now all you Hi Macs and Staron guys…please fess up. Where did those company names come from?
Lenny
The other person who was responsible for Avonite was Marvin Warnic (sp?). Very interesting soul. He is also responsible for many of the unique colors, and the stretching of what solid surface is. Ive not seen Marvin in several years, I hope his health is still ok, and he’s enjoying retirement. And yes George Ross from the Apprentance fame, and his brother founded Avonite. They started out making jewlery boxes etc from this Polyester resin.
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