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Posts
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Why is Corian for sale with no takers if DuPont was making tons of money?? Yes they need to move material in order to keep plants operating etc, but they are not getting rich off box stores, In fact, I bet every single mfg wishes they DIDN”T have to be in the box stores. But untill some other avenue for them to sell the same amount of material they are stuck.
I would even go so far as to say not many mfg are making much money at all. This industry is not a hugely profitable industry, on any level.
Interesting that Silestone is now selling slabs to everyone and you CAN compete with the box stores, we do it daily. Bottom line is the box stores are not the cheap source on almost any product they sell, with the exceptions of lost leaders. And if your paying $400 for a solid surface sink.. who’s the fool
. Gemstone will sell you a great sink for much cheaper, as will Karran and a dozen other mfg… This all goes back to supporting those that support you. If Corian is screwing you on sinks DON”T SELL THEM. Thats the only way to make a change happen. We all have options, more options today then ever, so support those that support you, but don’t blame everything on the box stores. If i was to open another kitchen showroom I would want to be right next to HD and Lowes, they can’t compete with ME. I CAN compete with them.
As far as samples in box stores, do you have any idea how many laminate chips they give out? Its staggering. Thats part of the reason they DON”T get the cheapest prices, they are expensive to do business with.
Joe,Wags
I was actually taking about the both the mfg and the box stores setting the price to the fabricator. As a fabricator you either agree to that set price or not and they find a fabricator that will. As a fabricator of a few box stores when we agreed to this we would get material from our distributor for a 10 to 15 % discount from our normal pricing E-stone and S.S. When they would do this sink promo we would get them at a next to nothing price but we still had to pay for them, that was part of the fabs part of the promos going on at the stores. Any other promo was to be at the mfg expense with the box store dictating what promo was to go on. The fab was not inpacted that much we would do the job a little less then walk-ins but we do alot of jobs for the stores so quanity would help make up for a lower sell price it would at the end of the year be a wash for all jobs sold and % margins for walk-ins and box sores. So we would make a little money doing box stores in the big pic.
Now as time has gone on they start a 5% discount from final invoice (they meaning mfg) and the distributor start to close the margin on material between a walk-in and a box sale. As a fabricator you feel at the mercy of your distributor because you don’t know if they are just tightening their belts feeding you a line or if they are being told by mfg to start rising prices on box sales.We are being told that the mfgs are at the mercy of the box store.
My real ? was if any one else is doing box stores, if you could give me a call I would like to see if my distributor is full of it or maybe my sales rep is. Was curious to see if their price for E-stone has gone way up and if S.S. has gone up along with the sink promo that is going on.They say it has come from the mfg and if the fabricator’s don’t like it find another fabricator.
CAP
Cap:
The same volume level that allows the supreme negotiating position of the box stores with the manufacturers is the same volume level that allows supreme negotiating position with fabricators.
They will not run out of fabricators to beat the crap out of. Sorry, I ended that sentence with a preposition. They will not run out of fabricators out of whom they can beat the crap. That dang English class is payin’ off.
The crappier the economy, the stronger and more valueable their work becomes to fabricators.
Joe
“If Formica gave out $5,000.00 a month in samples, they were idiots. After recieving a $100.00 deposit from a potential customer, you have them take home an entire box of samples. When the customer returns the samples complete, they are refunded their deposit. Sample losses would be virtually nill and the willingness of the potential’s to deposit would be a good sales qualifier too. Plus you’re gauranteeing be-backs. Maybe I should submit a resume to Formica before they throw away any more money. No wonder those dufusses went bankrupt”
Hey joe how many customers are you providing samples to at a time at a time? 5? Our exposure is slighly larger than that.
“If Formica gave out $5,000.00 a month in samples, they were idiots. After recieving a $100.00 deposit from a potential customer, you have them take home an entire box of samples. When the customer returns the samples complete, they are refunded their deposit. Sample losses would be virtually nill and the willingness of the potential’s to deposit would be a good sales qualifier too. Plus you’re gauranteeing be-backs. Maybe I should submit a resume to Formica before they throw away any more money. No wonder those dufusses went bankrupt”
Hey joe how many customers are you providing samples to at a time at a time? 5? Our exposure is slighly larger than that.
Posted By Matt Dufinetz on 09 Feb 2009 07:10 AM
“If Formica gave out $5,000.00 a month in samples, they were idiots. After recieving a $100.00 deposit from a potential customer, you have them take home an entire box of samples. When the customer returns the samples complete, they are refunded their deposit. Sample losses would be virtually nill and the willingness of the potential’s to deposit would be a good sales qualifier too. Plus you’re gauranteeing be-backs. Maybe I should submit a resume to Formica before they throw away any more money. No wonder those dufusses went bankrupt”Hey joe how many customers are you providing samples to at a time at a time? 5? Our exposure is slighly larger than that.
Matt:
You are making a logical error. You are assuming that the volume of samples provided affects the soundness of having a deposit system.
I don’t let customers have one sample out of a box. I have them take the complete set, because I know I’ll drive back across town for a complete set and I won’t for a chip or two.
Furthermore, you fail to address the advantages of the sales qualification effect a deposit system would have on potential customers. If your potential customer can’t even afford a refundable $100.00 deposit, do you even want to invest another minute talking to them, let alone have them carry a sample home to use as a free trivet or child’s toy? If they’re not willing to part with a refundable C-note, you think you’re going to pry three large out of them for a kitchen? Good luck.
You fail to address the advantage of getting another bite at the apple when they return the samples.
This isn’t about samples, its about cutting waste. Waste of time and material on “leads” that are going nowhere. If Formica doesn’t adopt a more cost-conscious sampling system, they’ll be back in bankruptcy court in short order.
It is precisely because of your larger exposure that Formica needs a deposit or similar system. Thanks for making my case for me.
Joe
P.S:
You guys need me more that I thought; to whom shall I forward my resume?Kelsey
Hi-Macs has not been a big issue it was the Viatera it jumped without notice $XX.XX a slab and that went above what I was paying for walk ins. My sells rep says it is because lg and lowes raised the slab price for lowes jobs it has just not made since that I can buy material for less on a walk in then when I get a job from lowes.
I guess I got sucker writing all over my face
Andy can probably attest to that.I have to say Joe, you have completely figured it out. I will take your recommendations up the chain of command. I sure you will be hearing from our from the HR department very shortly. Begin holding breath now.
I can’t wait contacting HOK, Gensler or other mega specifier and getting the credit card for the samples. I am sure our competition will jump on this program the very next day we start it. When HOK designs the next stadium and uses our product, we be sure to give them back their deposit on the samples.
Posted By Cap on 09 Feb 2009 10:17 AM
Kelsey
Hi-Macs has not been a big issue it was the Viatera it jumped without notice 200 a slab and that went above what I was paying for walk ins. My sells rep says it is because lg and lowes raised the slab price for lowes jobs it has just not made since that I can buy material for less on a walk in then when I get a job from lowes.
I guess I got sucker writing all over my face Andy can probably attest to that.Cap:
I heard Viatera and Lowes required Viatera fabricators to purchase new sheets for each job ordered, even if you had drops from the last job that would work! What a way to increase sales, right out of the hide of your fabricator.
Joe
Posted By Matt Dufinetz on 09 Feb 2009 11:53 AM
I have to say Joe, you have completely figured it out. I will take your recommendations up the chain of command. I sure you will be hearing from our from the HR department very shortly. Begin holding breath now.I can’t wait contacting HOK, Gensler or other mega specifier and getting the credit card for the samples. I am sure our competition will jump on this program the very next day we start it. When HOK designs the next stadium and uses our product, we be sure to give them back their deposit on the samples.
I have to say Matt, you have completely figured out how not to address my points.
I’m taking a logic class this semester and your second paragraph is an example of an informal fallacy, specifically the “red herring”. (Named after the tracking dog training technique of dragging a smelly fish across the trail to throw off the dogs.) You committed this fallacy when you diverted attention from the retail showroom argument I made based on Wags’ information to the subtly related one of architectural specifiers, hoping no one would notice and presuming to win the argument. Perhaps you’ll have to use that trick on a less sophisticated crowd.
Even though it’s irrelevant, I’ll answer your “red herring” argument. Take care of the customers, Matt. They will take care of the competition for you. When you’ve done that, it doesn’t matter where or how high the competition jumps.
Your sarcasm was delicious and I’m hoping for another serving. Will I see you at the show in Orlando?
Joe
We give samples because customers expect it. Take a look at the Auto industry and the marketing brochures they put together. When you walk into a car lot, you expect to get one and it better be free.
Customers, generally don’t see the cost associated with samples so for us, it is better to give them the samples, sell our company and let the chips fall where they may.
I like Joe’s idea about giving the entire sample box with a deposit but with the number of customers we have each day, I am not sure we would have enough boxes to go around. Plus, those boxes of samples are heavy and expensive.
I should have known better than to even respond to a dialog in which you are invloved. As I stated before, you are absolutley correct in your analysis of the market today and we should all follow your suggestions. I should have just absorbed your teachings instead on getting invloved in the discussion.
As far as Formica’s status of financial position, We have out of bankrupcy for almost five years. We have a completely different owner and are in a completely different financial position than before. Your statments of:
“This isn’t about samples, its about cutting waste. Waste of time and material on “leads” that are going nowhere. If Formica doesn’t adopt a more cost-conscious sampling system, they’ll be back in bankruptcy court in short order.”Is completely false, edited by moderator.
And no, I will not be in Orlando. I will be implementing your sample program.
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