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Posts
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Or at least the headline.
Norm,
Any true conservative would be just as appalled at this as a good liberal. Cronyism through lobbyists is nothing new. There have been many laws passed designed to help a particular company. It’s as wrong as laws passed that kill jobs or help industries that would never survive without them.With rare exceptions, a free market should not be hampered by government interference.
What is the problem with companies lobbying congress? It’s not the companies it’s the corrupt politicians that are persuaded with cash rather than doing what’s right.
Every subsidy that exist is because the politicians were lobbied by private industry.
BTW, corporate taxes shouldn’t exist.
I agree, Andy, that there is no reason a company should not follow any legal means to avoid taxes. I also agree it is the politicians who pass the laws allowing them to get away with it who should receive our consternation.
My point was that a true fiscal conservative should not want special deals for businesses as much as he/she should not want special deals for labor, or for throwing good money after bad ideas.
Why shouldn’t corporate taxes exist?
I have never understood the idea of corperate taxes. Taxes are an expense. Companies are in business to make a profit. If you increase their expenses, they need to increase their prices to offset the expenses and maintain a certain profit level. In the end consumer pays fo the tax.
Johnny c
Let’s assume you removed all taxes from a business. The company would shed it entire accounting expense, tax consulting, owner distraction, and software/computer related expense on top of legal/prevention measures to ensure it’s all done correctly.
Now take all that money and time and invest it back into the business. If you build boats, hire a guy to better engineer the boat or maybe you could afford to pay for a new spray system to better paint the boat.
Of coarse once you ended all corporate taxes the profits would seem out of this world but the free market would quickly eat away at that. Some boat builder that wanted to enter the market would determine expenses and undersell the next guy.
To offset this, you may need to increase sales tax or payroll tax but in the end it would benefit everyone including all the employees that are trying to compete with cheap, oversees labor.
Corporate taxes are lame and very unproductive. Just think how much more you could do with your business if all you energy was applied to making better countertops. Tax time comes around and all you need to do is file a personal tax return and that is it.
Better, maybe you could tell me one good reason there is a corporate tax.
First of all I am a Sub Chapter S Corp and I don’t pay corporate taxes as most of you on here are also Sub Chapter S.
Second, I don’t believe in publicly traded companies. Profits to shareholders should go to the owners of the companies and trickle down to the workers. If a company needs capital they can raise it privately and pay it back at a moderate interest rate. The stock market is a scam.
While we’re at it I don’t think commodities should be traded either, another scam.
Why don’t you believe in publically traded companies? How do think a startup would raise enough money to expand without the capital investment from those who invest in the stock market?
Posted By Norm Walters on 14 Dec 2011 05:38 AM
Andy, most companies start off private before they become public.
Norm, as a Disney shareholder, one of the benefits was I could go and stay in the off season at Walt Disney World Resorts at 40% off. Then they stopped it, siting it cost the company too much money. That same year Michael Eisner got a $45 million BONUS…. It became clear, it was not about the shareholders, it was all about how much these top guys could suck out of a company. Isnt it something, how a company in bankruptcy can still pay bonuses to the top guys…
Kelsey,
Say you get hired to make countertops and in the contract it states that you will get a bonus of $100 for every countertop you make. You take less hourly because you know that you can make tops fast and you are a hard worker.
So you make 1000 tops in a year, bust your ass and on 12/31 the company says that they are now bankrupt and you won’t get your bonus.
Nope, that is not the way it works. The contract with you is for labor and will get the money first before all other vendors are paid. This amounts to what looks like a huge bonus but in actuality this is part of your wages and is owed to you.
In fact you wouldn’t have taken the job and worked so hard if you didn’t believe you were getting the bonus. Would you be willing to forgo $100,000 bonus because the company failed to manage their money? Of course you wouldn’t.
And last, let me ask, how much did Micheal Eisner grow Disney? How much was that special program cost?
Posted By Norm Walters on 14 Dec 2011 05:38 AM
Andy, most companies start off private before they become public.
You are correct. Let’s take Twitter for example. Twitter started as a private company. Then people started using it and it would constantly crash.
So the company went to investors (Wall Street) and sold them shares of the company. They needed the money to buy a bigger and more efficient server farm. Without that money, the system would have failed and there would be no more Twitter.Keep in mind the shares of Twitter stock is worthless until the company goes public.Corruption is corruption no matter where you find it. It should be illegal and should be prosecuted. That doesn’t mean that corporations and wall street are bad.Posted By Norm Walters on 13 Dec 2011 03:26 PM
Profits to shareholders should go to the owners of the companies and trickle down to the workers. If a company needs capital they can raise it privately and pay it back at a moderate interest rate. The stock market is a scam.
While we’re at it I don’t think commodities should be traded either, another scam.
Norm:
I don’t know how to break this to you, but shareholders are owners of companies. Profits go to risk-takers as they should. If you work for a wage and take no risk, you get paid your wage and that’s it, no trickle-down for you. If you save some of your wage and gamble on capitalism by buying stock, you deserve to be rewarded for your risk-taking because you will certainly be punished when you pick wrong.
If you don’t like commodity trading, don’t trade commodities. An inexperienced trader will find out if it’s a scam soon enough, but some folks make a hell of a living at it.
Kelsey:
If you don’t like the pay of of the CEO’s of the companies whose stock you own, vote ’em out or sell your shares.
Joe
Joe, you are correct, shareholders are owners, albeit passive, I guess that’s the part I don’t like, but hey everybody is entitled to their own opinion.
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