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I am looking at purchasing a used larger saw to improve the productivityof my business. A big vertical panel was mainly what I had concluded I needed to purchase. But last week I spoke with a rep who pointed me towards a horizontal beam saw. I have seen both types of saws work and know the pros and cons but would like to get some fabricator feedback. With the budget I have on purchasing this saw he made a pretty convincing argument towards the beam saw.
A lot may have to do with how you are planning to use it and what you will be cutting. I personally love my vertical saw. It is very accurate and takes so much less room than a beam saw. I also have a horizontal panel saw that will do things that my vertical cannot do so I really need them both. Salespeople always have a convincing argument but I would defiantly do what you are doing and ask other shops. So how will you be using it, and what are you planning on cutting?
Shane
Shane,
We will be cutting 1/2″ as well as 3 cm Solid Surface. What we intend to use the saw for is to cut out all of our pieces (as much as possible) including splash as well as build up. The sales person I spoke with was a Holz Her rep and I made the call to get some questions anwered about a late model Holz Her 1220 vertical I had looked at. He talked with me concerning the issues of moving a vertical (loss of accuracy damage during transport, etc.). Also, he was doubtful anything older than the 1225/1230 models would produce seam quality cuts. Basically he said the horizontal will perform everything I stated above plus having more power to cut thicker material. Space really isnt an issue we only currently use about 2/3 of our 8,500 sq. ft. facility.
Thanks for the feedback
Well, a couple of observations: What is he harping on “loss of accuracy” if it is moved? Do you plan on moving it a lot? I’ve had customers move both types of saws and you always have to make sure the alignment is back to square. Also, seam quality cuts have a lot more to do with the quality of saw blade than the saw. I’ve seen high dollar saws tooled up with low dollar blades and the cut was terrible (usually the blade that comes with the saw). I’ve seen low dollar saws with an expensive blade make finished cuts. While I don’t sell saws, I do tool them up. Most if not all of our Florida SS customers use verticals. Even if space is not an issue, they have them. 3/4’s of these shops have Striebig saws. Of course, getting service after the sale on these machines should be thought #1.
Hope this helped a little.
Dave
Dave, thanks for the feedback. Basically, it would only be moved from its present location to my shop if I chose to purchase it, which is a few hours away. He said through experience its very difficult to bring back the accuracy once its moved from its original location even with company techs setting it up. As far as seam quality cuts only being possible on newer saws he is the only person who has said that to me. All in all, he didn’t try to sell me a beam saw in fact he talked negatively about his own brand of saw I was looking at, so he seemed sincere in his advice. Most people I’ve spoken with say Striebig’s are better but Holz Her makes a great saw and there service is excellent as well for less money.
If he is talking about loss of accuracy if the saw is moved, then it was a piece of crap to start with. I had a Striebig for ten years and I sold it to a fabricator 8 years ago and it is still in daily use. Not only that but he gladly paid my asking price, the same price I paid for it when it was new.
We cut everything on our Holzma HPPL 11 beam saw, and we always sean straight from the saw. Ours is a rear loader too. Somewhere I have a pic showing 43 sheets of solid surface on the loading table. As each sheet is cut the loader brings the next sheet up to the cutting line.
A rear loader takes up a bit more floor space than a front loader, but it made more sense for my shop. I have mine stuffed into a corner and you just can’t do that with a front loader. With a rear loader you put raw material in at the back and 3 things come out at the operators end. Finished parts, off cut useable pieces, and scrap/waste. The operator’s time is spent cutting and stacking/marking the pieces of the project, not loading the sheets. The saw automatically loads the next sheet while he/she sorts the pieces. You also get reliable cycle times because when it is hot in the summer people tend to slow down, especially if they have to hump heavy sheets around. The rear loader does not care about summer’s heat. As soon as it finishes a sheet, it gets the next one.
With a front loader you have an additional item to consider at the operators end, raw material sheets. That makes the operators end a busy place, and a lot of space is required at that end.
I can dig up a floorplan later today if you are interested.
BTW, our old cutting department had the Striebig and an Altendorf slider. The beam saw is 22′ wide by 37′ long and it takes up less space than the old cutting arraingement.
Like Steve said, the issue of moving a saw is ridiculous. Never heard the “if you buy this saw, you can never move it or else” theory. We have customers out growing space and moving…with the saw! Altendorf, Holz-er, Striebig, Holzma…all quality machines. Maybe the guy is talking down his other machine because the one he is trying to sell has a higher profit margin…hmmmm. Food for thought.
I moved my Striebig a couple of years ago, it was only to a unit next door but it still had to come apart and be set up and leveled again. I had no problems; we still seam right off the saw. I can’t imagine having that much problems moving a saw.
Shane
I don’t have a beam saw, I have a horizontal panel saw (no beam). I cut mostly solid surface on my Striebig; however, we are starting to cut a lot of other things after I recently made it more accessible to my laminate division. Our horizontal panel saw is used for cutting the thin sheets of laminate and miters on our laminate tops, as well as other things due to convenience of the location of the saw.
Shane
Is set up and use of the machine ever an issue. The horizontal panel saws we have in our cabinet shop take someone to program first before use. In our streibig if someone needs a couple strips of something there is no set up, just put it in and let er rip. Plus many of the better horizontals are more than an AXYZ, multicam or flexicam CNC. Of course if many repeat cuts of the same material are needed then the horizontal is great over most verticals. Just a couple of things to consider. To us foot print is very important, the streibig you can kind of hide against a wall versus our other panel saws.
John
Complex optimized jobs are best programmed from the office. Most beam saws today have some type of built it software that allows simple cutting to take place. Anyone in out shop can easily use this feature.
I have another question pertaining to the Vertical Panel Saw. It seems a 4 HP Striebig or Holz Her would be plenty for 1/2″ SS but we also offer 3 CM SS. Would the 7.5 HP saw be a must for cutting the 3 CM SS? It seems that it would.
Thanks everyone for the feedback on this thread it’s really been helpful.
DLinder
We dont cut the 3CM on the panel saw that much, usually just smaller pcs, but the streibig with a good blade does just fine. If you are going to be cutting a lot of it then the 7 1/2 might be needed.
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