[Reuben Hoff III]

Hey guys since I have been looking at getting ready to expand (hopefully) I am getting ready to get mycleints set for a regular turn around time and installation period. I was wondering what most of you guys figure for turn around from time template to install time. Most Kitchens we do are 2-3 sheet jobs and have heard people saying it takes 1day to 3 days for fab was just curious what the norm is. I am in the stone age with all hand tools and no CNC.

I know it is solid surface area, but we also do custom laminate work no preformed so was curios how many fab days is the average here also. Then I know if the guys I am looking at can meet this type of schrdule.

Thanks in advance.

[John Cristina]

Reuben,

Even though it is possible to fab a job before lunch and install it, we find that most fabricators around here give a lead time of 2 weeks. We have the same policies for most customers. Some of our larger builders require two day or three day turn around and for those that is fine, if all of our customers did that we would have some problems. Give yourself enough time that if you have a problem that it can be resolved with out having to call the customer to tell hem you will ba a day late or having to rush your shop which will make them create those problems.

[Shane Barker]

Reuben,

John is right; don’t base your schedule on how fast you can fabricate the job but rather on how efficiently you can keep up with your work load. On our faster side my office will tell people 2-3 weeks, we have gone out to 6-8 weeks. I templated a job last Friday and it is being installed this Friday, it was the only way this out of town customer could do it. When the customer needs a quick turn around and we can do it we will in order to get the job. For a long time now we rarely go over three weeks from when we template. One to three days is pretty accurate for fabrication time for us, three day jobs would be three sheets, coved splash and probably a large island or peninsula.

Our laminate jobs go much faster, we have usually four guys in the shop fabricating laminate and they can postform and fabricate even a large job in a day. They usually work on several jobs at a time and we do a lot of custom tops and custom edges. Our schedule works the same as with our solid surface for the most part.

It is much better to have the job completed in the rack for a day or two than calling the customer and telling them you will be a day or two late.

Shane

[John Cristina]

A two week lead time can also make you look great. Not only does it allow you breathing room but if everything goes according to plan or you can push it up in your production schedule, you can call the customer and ask “would you mind if we install your job a few days earlier than planned?” Now they wish all of their contractors were more like you or maybe you can get more work from them. Instead of just kitchen tops maybe you can replace the company doing the cultured marble tops or now you are doing window sills for them, etc.

John

[Reuben Hoff III]

Sounds like what I have been doing lately is templating and telling them 2-3 weeks we will see you. Do you guys make sure materials are in before templating? Also how do handle the one client that always calls 1 weeks before cabinets are do in and says order the job and be ready to template and install in 2 weeks? I have continually told him I need 2-3 weeks to get material in case of damage in shipping or by chance out of stock, but still every time its sold see you in 2 weeks.

[Shane Barker]

I just love it when the customer tries to schedule our jobs. Most of the time I would stay firm with my schedule and not let the customer dictate when I will be out, but if it is a good repeat customer it might be worth doing their jobs a little faster but make sure they know you are doing them a favor, not that it matters with some people, they will still expect it every time. Just depends on the customer.

We tell our customers we don’t schedule for templates until the cabinets are completely installed. They always try to anticipate when the cabinets will be in, but most times it takes longer than they think.

We usually order material after the templates, but we get our material pretty fast. On large jobs we may order before templates or a least check stock to make sure there won’t be a problem. Our material usually arrives in one to three days after we order.

Shane

[Reuben Hoff III]

Shane,

Wish I was in your area for material turn around time. Most of my dealers only run to me every other week or it is shiped common carriear and that can de a night mare since some guys think they can stack anything on the sheets and not hurt them. That part about repeat business is the kicker with this customer, he does give us a lot of jobs, but it is tough to get him to allow us time for our order lead times. I guess he must forget the cows can only walk so fast. Thanks for the input.

[Reuben Hoff III]

I understand the lead time stuff well, but in regards to schedule fabrication time in my shop. What is a fair time to give one guy to fabricate a 3 sheet job, sink, simple edge profile, 45 degree corners no backsplash and plus time to sand?

[John Cristina]

In the past I have observed that most employees in my shop can cut and build a kitchen in one day and perform most of the routing. The second day they can finish the job and get it loaded. No CNC, only hand tools and a panel saw. It seems that a simple two man shop can produce 2.5 kitchens per week.

John

[Andy Graves]

This is what we do:

• Sign Contract and Check material availability at that time. If the distributor is low we order, if not we wait.
• Lead times to have their job from time of signed contract to install is 3-6 weeks. More than six weeks for us and we work overtime.
• Schedule the template on Moraware and then schedule the install at the same time.
• Give the customer the dates and we try to stick to that 95% of the time.
• We keep the time between temp and install to less than 10 working days. We factor in things like size of job, cutomer is pain in the ass or not, distance to job, type of material, new construction or remodel, etc.
• If the customer has a delay we work with them to get the next install date.

As far as making countertops, 80 hours will will temp, fabricate and install two kitchens. ABOUT depending on your experience. This is a safe doable number. Now of course this leaves a lot of overtime hours to be used if you have two guys. Go to four guys working 160 a week and you could probably do up to five regular kitchens a week. Keep in mind you still have to have someone sell thes jobs.

[Reuben Hoff III]

Thanks alot guys .Now I guess it is time to go to work.

[Lesley Thomason]

I think Andy is right on on his time frame. We have 6-8 guys in the shop on any given day and they turn out two average size kitchens a day. Some take more time and some take less, and definitely give yourself the lead time you need. Don’t let the customer push you because then they will just be angry when you have to postpone everything due to a problem.

[Reuben Hoff III]

I’ve been looking at my fab times and they are pretty close to that when I can stay in the shop and not have to stop and help answer questions for customer. I am getting my wife trained well to take over all the sales and qouting so I can be in the shop. So I can see how you can have those turn around times, but another consideration I need to have is what is the sqaure footage of shop area that you guys figure for a work station for a fab guy. Naturally this changes with the job but whats the average?

[Shane Barker]

Reuben,

Sometimes size doesn’t matter, you can make due in a very minimum space if you need too you just need to be creative. I started fabricating solid surface in my double car garage because my laminate shop was only 1500 sq. ft. and it was full. This only lasted for a short time before I moved to a 3000 sq. ft. shop. I was there for several years before my next move, and then it was 6000 sq. ft. split in half for my laminate and solid surface. It was not long before I crowded out my fabricators with equipment but they were jammed up for a couple of years before we expanded again. Now we have 8500 sq. ft. and 2500 sq. ft. just for fabrication (and maybe a little equipment). It is nice being able to spread out the jobs and have plenty of room but it has taken us a long time to afford the space. The way we fabricate it is nice to have each work station big enough to lay out the entire job on stands or tables and not bump into the next guy. It is also nice to have multiple stations to work on multiple jobs at the same time.

Shane

[Andy Graves]

We have on average three guys fabricating solid surface in a 2500 sq’ space. And the cnc takes up some room. Look in the “gallery” and look at the shop photos. My shop is the one that says Olive Mill on the sign. That is 2500 sq’

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