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Basic fabrication question to settle arguement around here.
30″ material, you have to fabricate a 36″ peninsula with a sink in it.
I always program these as you would any peninsula with usually 2 or 3 seams running perpindicular to the overhang, seam blocked, and underlayment for overhang rabbetted out for seam blocks. With sinks, I really don’t do it any different, usually with a seam running thru the sink off center to get away from faucet holes.
Of course, my guys are always told no seams in sinks or cooktops, but I do it this way to avoid a seam running parallel to the overhang . (and also avoid a long seam). I hate seams over about 3 feet and try to avoid at all costs.
Anyone want to share their thoughts regarding this common type of top?
Matt,
On that scenario I will go with a seam running parallel to the overhang but on the opposite side as far from the overhang as possible (29”). If it has a sink I do it the same way with the seam running through the sink.
Shane
Matt,
I fabricate the way you describe. However, I will at times put the seam through the sink the long way so that I don’t have a seam at the overhang. I feel that you will have a seam through the sink no matter what unless you put the seam out at the overhang which is a real bad idea.
We just add a seam support at the seam up to the sink. The sink will provide extra support where the seam and sink meet.
We run a seam behind the sink, but use a short peice, say 38″ or so long, just enough to keep the seam out of the sink. At at least one end, we go back to the perpindicular method with substrate supporting the unsupported overhang. When there is enough room, I like to have this on both ends. More work, but safer.
Is there a reason seams are forbidden in sinks? In my mind, I can’t imagine a better place for it, except if it is about expansion issues.
I have been seaming through sinks for a very long time now and (at the risk of jinxing my future jobs) I have never had any problems. I was told a long tome ago that if you strap up to the sink there would be no problem, and I will continue to do it that way. It would be interesting to hear if Karl from BTP has run into any failures from seaming through a sink.
Shane
The seams are not warrantied so it really doesn’t matter. If you don’t have any problems with it then you shoud seam through the sink. The problem will come back on you if anything happens.
I would seam the top parallel to the overhang, but as far away from it as possible as Shane does. We rarely have any problems with long seams from material that is routed on the CNC. Depending on the top size, you actually sometimes end up with less linear inches of seam when seaming parallel to the overhang as opposed to perpendicular to it, and with seaming through the sink, that would take away some more linear inhes of seam. Norm posed a similar question some time ago about a table top (not involving a sink). I gave the same answer. Some people disagreed, so I asked one of the owners at my company his thoughts on the matter. He said he wouldn’t give the parallel seam a second thought becuase we have had much success with doing things that way, but said he does know where those opposing were coming from since sometimes it relieves internal stresses in the material whenever you rout it and the problems from this multiply when the seams are longer.
About not seaming through sinks, that could be a real material waster if you never seamed through a sink in a typical depth kitchen countertop with a bowl in a corner that had an angle across it. Sorry, I don’t know the technical term for this cabinet configuration. We sometimes refer to them as “batwings”.
Have a nice day,
SethA long time ago. on the ISSFA site I had a topic where I lost a job to a guy that made a top that was 13′ out of one sheet. He put the seam at the sink, uh I mean seams. I believe the Formica rep chimed in and said it was ok with them as long as a solid block was attached the lenght of the sink, and the buildup carried the front. If I recall, the LG HiMacs guy said the same. I did a job a few months ago, and as the Staron Manual says, if you have to put a seam through a cooktop or sink call them. I did, and all they said was added support and reinforced seams. No matter where the seams are, we are responsible for them anyway. Key is always use a block with a 45deg so as not to create a stress riser.
Lenny Elbon, by the way, where is Lenny??. told a story about about a guy he met overseas, that had never used a corner block in a cooktop. After 100’s, he never had a failure. Lenny had to find out why. Lenny discovered the guy put almost a mirror polish on the entire edge. He said a scratch on acrylic, is the same as a piece of glass with a glass cutter run over it. The scratch will only fail if the correct amount of stress is applied. I sand all my cooktops to 600git.. so far so good. Lenny also said, it was better to have (as example) 4 – 12″ seams than 1- 48″ seam. Sometimes you have to put a seam through a sink, as in a corner sink.
KC
So for the seam through the sink they say put seam block to sink our you suppose to adhere it to the sink with adheasive also?
Also the shorter seams verses long seams goes against what I have always been told. I was taught fewer seams the better, so if I gather info correctly it is better to have more shorter seams than 1 long seam?
In this application I do short seams. If I had a CNC I would probably do them the long way. As far as seaming through the sinks, I haven’t had a problem, just glue it all up at the same time, sink, seam plate and buildup.
I just went through Avonite Cert a week or so ago, popcicle sticks and all, and was told that seams through sinks are no prob as long as they are blocked properly.
Also told that Avonite no longer (I am assuming they did at some point) requires beveld seam blocks.
Chris
On a corner sink, you have to seam thru the sink at some point. I just adhere seam block over the seam, or up to the sink. No I do not have adhesive from seam block to sink, that is attaching two opposing surfaces. kc
Things must have changed at Avonite. They told us a couple of years ago to not put a seam through a sink unless we called and got a variance. I did one that way, and the second time it needed to be done, they told us no way and suggested using the paralell method. That takes a 6 foot peice for the corner sink and some waste in the process.
It just doesn’t make sense not to put the seam in the sink as a sink should be the best seam block possible.
Not sure if this helps but, we have repaired many cracked seams running long ways at an island over hang, and I can not recall repairing a cracked seam running the short way thru a sink.
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