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Posts
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Hi Al, Hi Miles,
We have no national standard regulating radiation in NORM (naturally occurring radioactove Materials) and TENORM (Technically Enhanced Naturally Ocuuring Radioactive Materials).
So in the interim how will a consumer know whether a building material is safe?. Als argument has merit, you need to test each slab.
Right now there is no national standard. Some states have regs, that vary from state and some states have no regs at all. Theres not even regs on imports! Having a fabber test each slab, Thats unweildy, its an expense for the fabricator.
What I propose is a national consensus standard covering all inorganic building materials (granite, tile, block, brick yada yada). Run it thru ASTM or ANSI. Have manufacturers, quarry owners. scientists, fabricators, distributors sit around a table and hammer this out.
I dont expect garnite fabricators to go out and buy rad meters. Solid surface fabricators dont have to buy colorimeters , gloss meters or test the material because the manufacturers do all that. Its should be a cost of doing business for quarrys and importer re-sellers..
ASTM doesnt charge for this. Its free. Im an ASTM member, and also on the TAG committee (Technical Advisory Group) to ISO . No one gets paid for this, its a volunteer effort. In fact it costs you money to join, to write standards, fly to the meetings etc. Miles you and AL would perfect for this effort. Id help.
The end result, is all consumers can be assured the granite in thier homes are safe, fabricators are free of litigation, all this goes away. And most importantly granite producers and fabricators can have a part in and take a leading role in making this happen.
Thats the stuff that press releases are made of. MIles! Its a sales tool MIles, When some lady comes into your shop and says I am worried about granite being radioactive, you can assure her its not, and tell her all about the great efforts granite people went to to ensure the safest product possible.
Now MIles, why do I have to suggest this? What are those dues everyone pays to the MIA for? Why didnt the MIA suggest this? Makes one wonder doesnt it?
B Rgds,
Lenny
Lenny,
I’m in on the ASTM thing if needed.But ya know, almost all granite will have some level of radiation. Wouldn’t it be better to say that the granites being sold at our shops have been checked and are low level stuff?
The quarries will support this, they are saying that it is better to do this voluntarily than get it stuffed down their throuts. Set this up and I’ll see that we get importers and quarrymen informed.
I’ll argue with you though on the need for shops to have their own meter. One last check, we both know how simple it is, before this material gets used. Guys that buy conainers are the most at risk, but slabs are too costly, too much temptation to get rid of what slips through or what is found to be bad.
I would sleep better knowing for sure.
Al, thanks.
I will get back to everyone on the standard. I have a pile of them now I have to vote on. Maybe we can run it as a dual standard, 1 ASTM standard referencing an ISO world wide standard. That would help guarantee safe building materials, within the US as well as world wide, and also address the import issue.
I will post about it after I talk to some friends at ASTM and ISO.
In the meantime, youre right, there is no standard, so you gotta test each slab to be sure. But I still say that burden should be on the seller (quarry or importer – reseller) not on the fabricator.
What does everyone else think?
Thanks,
Lenny
I agree that the burden should be on the seller and not the fabricator. Because, what little reading I’ve done on testing, those little meter things are not reliable or accurate, and you need to be certified and qualified to test.
There are two hundred fabricators in Atlanta. I don’t think any of them are certified or qualified to test for radon.
Miles,
Its a rad meter, like a gieger counter. It isnt like piloting the space shuttle. You point and press a button. Its no more complex than your TV channel changer, push a button and magicly the channel number appears.
Those things are so simple , they even let grunts in the military use them with minimal training, how hard can it freaking be MIles? (Just yanking your chain son, I know youre an AIr force guy- BTW the smartest guys in the military are always in the Air Force
).As for accuracy its easy. Andy, Al, me and a few others have the same model meter. All ya gotta do is whats called a round robin experiment. Ship the same piece of stone to all who have the meters. And we read it and click pix.
Or better yet, we all test a stone with a pix, and we send em to Los Alamos and let those nuke-a-Lific experts read em.
Will that ease your doubts Miles?
What ever it takes. But , as my Daddy used to say, be careful what you ask for, Miles, because sometimes you get it. For example when I was young and sitting in geography class, I dreamed of flying to distant and strange lands, now I do that routinely. Buzzing from 1 thrid world country to another can be exciting, but then theres dysentary, terrorists, the terrain, and uggh, the food.
Smiles,
Lenny
Lenny,
I know you are tying to make some peace here, but at some point it wil become clear that for a stone guy to add to the discussion, a willingness to read the data presented, the intelligence to understand where it leads, and an open mind will be needed.
Somehow, I think we haven’t quite found that stone fabricator. Hopefully I’ll be proven wrong.
I do know a couple of guys that would be suited for this committee. They don’t throw up specious arguments, don’t argue the facts. They will challenge for proof, but will accept scienctific results. When you are ready, I’ll approach a couple of them and see if they will join the effort.
Meter accuracy, well, we tested three PM 1703s last Saturday on the same granite slab, same exact spot. All read exactly the same, 92 uR/hr, not a hot spot, just a generaly hot slab.
These scintillators are accurate, this is just an attempt to cloud the results.
I mentioned this in another thread, but two of our scientist friends are going to share results and samples to cross check their equipment. I am testing and recording the samples as they go out, so we can cross reference our meters with what the pros say.
Al has hurt my feeling again! He’s questioned my intelligence. I guess I’ll never get him to appreciate my IQ. I can only stand on my record. Which includes the decision to become a granite fabricator right when the craze really took off. That was over 10 million dollars ago. Now that was pretty smart!
Al, scientiic proof usually comes from scientist, not carpenters.
Hi Miles,
I will never insult your inteligence, intentionally. I think youre a smart guy. Also congrats on your successful biz. Thats great! I like fabricators, regardless of material they fabricate. I think Norm Walters of Norm Walters Construction fame said it best, when he said – What difference does it make if you fabricate a widget or a gidget? (Sorry Norm if I butchered your quote).
But what is a scientist? For example- who was DaVinci? Was he a painter, was he an inventor and designer of siege engines? Was he a scientist?
Who was Tesla? They are still trying to figure that guy out, and to this day dont fully realize the implications of his work, even years after the FBI siezed his notes (due to National security concerns) from his widow upon his passing.
Who was Edison? Inventor, bussinessman, or scientist?
Now we are going hammer this out post by post., meeting by meeting. In the end there will be a standard covering radiation in building materials. It will assure All NORM building materials sold by NORM building materials fabricators,is safe. It will make this mess go away. It will insulate the fabricator from lawsuits. I think it will grow the stone industry! When consumers see what lengths fabricators went to, in order to assure thier safety, what do think the perception of the consumer will be toward your product?
Im sure its going to be, “Wow, those guys are one astute, tenacious bunch of craftsman. And they CARE about ME and my FAMILY”. That perception is usually accompanied by a sound MIles……….that sound is…………Cha Ching!.
And please dont trivialize carpenters. My grand daddy was one. I owe the many houses I have lived in to the hard work and craftsmanship of carpenters. They say Jesus was a carpenter, and that makes it one important and honorable profession in my book
Lenny
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