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Looks good Andy. I made pans for our house 12 years ago and they are still working. Having done it, I’d do it differently in the future. I’d cove the base inside the pan, and get the silicone up out of the water 4 inches or more. Or I’d go for the complete coved shower like John did. Yup, it’s more work but way easier to live with for 15+ years afterward!
If I went to a church that had advertisements in their weekly bulletin, I’d find a new church.
I’ve been going to church for over 50 years, and have yet to see an advertisement in a bulletin.Oddly funny….now that EVERYONE uses cards for EVERYTHING, and now that the banks have us trained not to go inside the bank (I once banked at an institution that charged a service fee if you used real life tellers more than 4 times per month), they want to charge us for the things that make their business more convenient. It’s not my problem that they choose to outsource credit card processing and pay for it rather than doing it in-house.
Ya gotta love fees.
Hi Andy,
I don’t know anything about production costs, or magazine costs (or what they bring in by way of advertising to offset production costs.)
I was just saying I might have value for those two products….products, not an association.
And I’m pretty sure you aren’t spending $12,000 per hour on the videos you post on FabNet. If you are, you aren’t getting that money from the subscription price of FabNet. ;^)Posted By Andy Graves on 22 Jan 2013 11:29 AM
Doesn’t it seem like every time there is a new director we have this exact same conversation? And every time we say that this time will be different. This guy will really come in a make a difference to bring back the good ol’ days.
Andy – absolutely. Each new director comes to bring relevance back to the association, then leaves, and the new director begins at square one again. If there were an obvious need they could meet, it would have been dealt with, because there have been some good, smart people in that position.
By the way, I think ISFA already did do away with a full time training center, and now use a school when they have classes?
Posted By Tom M on 22 Jan 2013 07:18 AM
Len,
In this industry, I cannot think of an outfit besides ISFA that covers all things countertop. In that light, why can’t they find that sweet spot? There must be some way for them to be attractive enough for a large membership.I think they should either go back to solid surface or discover what would make a “full countertop” society attractive. There must be something.
And yet for the past several years they have still been searching for what that thing might be.
Tom, what do you need that they can provide? Isn’t that the most basic question? I think an expanded, high quality magazine is worth money and I’d pay for it, I’d probably even pay a premium per copy price.I don’t need them to do basic fabrication training for my employees, I have employees who can do that on-site here, and I don’t have to ship them off somewhere. The training is really only valuable for a first time fabricator, and in that sense all they are doing is training new competitors (since we’re being really honest here.) So the training is mostly valuable one time in the life of a fabricator…and then it loses it’s value. So what is the ROI for ISFA on running the training center, for a one time benefit to a fabricator? And what is the size of the pool of new fabricators who need one time training? I’ll bet the training center is a money drain on ISFA, and if so, that should be scrapped. If they want to offer training, partner with a fabricator who will make their facility available on a weekend, and pay a one-time fee for the use of the facility and their expertise. No more full time staff to operate a training center, no more overhead for same.Regional gatherings are fine, but again….what do they offer my business that I see as being worth the investment of time? If networking between peers was as valuable as has been claimed in the past, then all of the past presidents would still be networking. the trade show used to be worthwhile in the early years, not because of networking with other fabricators, but because it gave time to develop relationships with manufacturers and get meetings done in one spot. While I don’t like Las Vegas, it was only a 4.5 hour drive, and hotels were relatively cheap. Once the manufacturers determined that the ROI wasn’t worth it for them, the value of the show declined.I don’t mean to sound discouraging, but your post raises the bottom line: what is that one thing that fabricators would find valuable, and would pay for? I think the best way to help them here would be to answer that question.I think they should stick with the magazine, trim all other expenses, and develop something web based for training, like instructional videos on all facets of fabrication like mold making for thermoforming, (3D thermoforming) a multitude of repair techniques, pulling on-site seams with coved and full height coved splashes, multi colored inlay techniques, etc. Then make the website subscription based so it can be searched whenever a fabricator runs into a fabrication or installation snag. Make the magazine subscription based, and get rid of the dues for belonging to an association, which is currently like requiring dues so that an outmoded business can keep functioning in an outmoded fashion.Regarding training, there is one way to find out if that could be a valuable proposition. Who is it that needs to offer training? The manufacturers who require certification. Either they need staff and facilities for training, or they farm it out. Right now ISFA is getting fabricators to pay for certification. If the Mfgr’s require certification, they need to offer a way to get it. ISFA should offer that service to the manufacturers who require it, as a paid subcontractor. If ISFA stopped offering certification training, the manufacturers would have to begin offering it, or drop the requirement for certification. If Mfgrs don’t have enough value to pay ISFA to offer it, ISFA should drop it. I may be the only one, but I have no value for it.Just my opinion….By the way, has anybody else noticed that several long time industry leaders who were also past presidents of ISSFA are nowhere to be found in the organization? Michael Wilson South, John Forst, Vanessa Bates (these are just the ones from my area), and others have virtually disappeared once they finished their term.
Gene, you are spot on. ISFA has nice people, nobody has ever questioned that in the post-Oxley era. It is just irrelevant.
When you are in the position of having to prove to people that you are relevant, bells should go off in your head. When you have a product people want, they find the path to your door, and if it’s a great product, they beat a path to your door. ISFA is an organization in search of a need to meet so they can be in business.
Some companies and organizations serve an extremely useful need for a time, and then that time passes. Most don’t see the end until it’s too late, and they dwindle down into nothing. A few pull the plug while there are still assets, and a few find a new niche. I hope ISFA finds a new niche that meets a true need. If they do, they’ll thrive once more. I don’t know what that niche is.
By the way, I use this same thought process on our own business. Are we still as relevant as we used to be? Are there market factors which are reducing the market penetration or clout that we used to have? If so, is there anything we can do to change or cannibalize our own business to come out on the other side stronger? We have recently identified a couple of those market factors that were watering down our uniqueness, and we’re taking steps. I’ll let you know how that goes.
Len
In the installation instructions. Installing over masonry for example, is verboten. The only two substrates mentioned in the installation instructions are greenboard or cementitious backer board.
Hi Norm,
What I meant is that I’m wondering if Corian, Avonite, Hi Macs, etc would warranty an installation over Noble Seal. I don’t believe the system has been tested by any of the solid surface mfgrs.
