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I got a complaint today from the BBB. A job we did back in may. Laminate top, customer was told about the thicker and higher counter top and that their cabinets might not be finished on the top rail under the old laminate “build down” top. Hadn’t heard a word except that they wanted us to drop the sheen from high gloss to satin or matte finish when we get to it. Gloss black counter top, yeah we warned her repeatably till she was adamant about the color.
So other than a extra deep build up, what do you do? Does anyone finish cabinets under these situations?
All this was discussed prior and we made it plain it was her responsibiltiy for plumbing, caulking and painting.
I replied to BBB with the details and said we would take it down to matte finish when we slowed down, but were under no oblication to refinish her cabinets. Other than the obvious, any ideas how to handle this?
Al,
I am not sure I understand. Are you talking about changing a
high gloss Laminate top to a matte or satin finish?Shane
Al,
Not that I feel you are obligated to do anything, but we install wood trim (not for free) when we have to raise up 3 CM thick tops to meet existing tile, etc. The only thing is though, I don’t know how much area you are talking about that is unfinished and this will lessen the overhang a little.
Have a nice evening,
SethAl,
Let me get this straight. You put the countertop on the cabinets so that the bottom of the edge is even with the top of the cabinets. Now you can see the damage on the cabinets where the previous cabinets touched the cabinet and caused damage.
We always drop the edge down to account for this difference but it is more time consuming to do this. We are looking into working with Affinity 3cm material and were wondering how you all handle this problem.
Sorry Al, but you have to look at it from the customers point of view. Your countertop caused an unsightly experience for her, one which it appears she was left to solve herself. In our area, it would be almost impossible to find someone to put a little piece of trim around the edge, let alone stain it too. She was really relying on you to do a complete replacement. I bet the gloss thing and black just adds to her aggravation. Try using the words “with Black, you will see even the smallest of scratches from across the room” as opposed to “Black will scratch easier”. Then they know why I do not have blacks in my sample boxes. I always tell the customer there might be an unfinished line under the countertop and I charge $100 to fix that if it is there, or they can do it themselves. I put that on the proposal, and note if customer will fix. Everyone has always paid me to do it, it takes just a few minutes to install and pretty good money. Also, coming back to do something else when I have time, means to a customer, sometime in the next month. Not to be critcal of you Al, but I grew up in a family of contractors and have learned from problem stories. It is always , communication!
Al,
What I do in these cases is put a small peice of trim to cover the area and always let the customer know an exact match wll not occur. Give them the sample colors to chose and then go with what they want. I have only had 1 customer want to do it themselves all the rest were more than happy to pay me to do it.
Al,
When faced with a “Drop-face” existing counter, and not using solid 3 cm material, why not make the new top drop face? If you are replacing a laminate top and it needs to be “set-on”, maybe the best bet is to run a strip of the same laminate as a trim strip, rather than wood (like to match the cabs).I’ve run across a lot of these situations. Call me if you wish (860) 528-5667.
Tom
Kelsy, we were at the point of “yes, Mam, I’ll shut up and we will use the black.” I tried to turn her off the stuff when I took the deposit check as well, wasn’t happing. I hadn’t thought of using trim, but the customer wants an exact color match apparently, although it was the first time I heard of it, on the bbb complaint. Remember, the last contact was for resurfacing the entire top down to a matte or satin finish, or did I mention that.
Spot on on the adding to agravation, this is really about the color she picked and insisted on. No one takes six months to complain about the cabinet finishing.
I’ll put a clause on my estimates about the issue and possible fixes. Thanks for all the help, guys.
Tom, I started out doing 3/4″ build up, leaving 1/4″ drop on the edge. Got away from it due to corner blocks and an occasional build up geting in the way. I might need to look at doing what you and Andy suggest, the drop down in those cases. Not much seam block support with a 3/4″ substrate though.
Okay…I am still confused, did you replace a Laminate top
with a Laminate top or with a Solid Surface top. And what do you mean;“Not much seam block support with a 3/4″ substrate though.”
I am sure it is me Al, I think I
need a scotch…or two and then I think it will all make sense….if not…then at
that point I probably won’t care.Shane
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t black material usually end up looking like a chalkboard when it is taken to a matte finish? Has the customer seen a sample of this? I don’t know what degree of finish samples are usually taken to, but I would guess that it is semi-gloss. Does she think just because other colors look good with a matte finish that this one will also? Good luck Al.
Have a nice day,
SethSorry for the confusion. The new top was a K3 avonite top, we replaced the laminate top. Maybe I need a scotch…..
Seth, you are right. It looks like poo when finished matte. We keep 8 x 8 samples of all three finishes of all material we have worked with and she has seen the matte sample of the black polyester. One of the reasons we aren’t rushing in to do the resurfacing, she probally won’t like it when we are done.
Thank you Al,
We have handled this a few different ways. Most of the time
it is an issue is with the existing tile jobs because sometimes we can’t tell
how far the tile lips over the cabinets until we tear them out. In the existing
laminate jobs we can usually see if there will be an issue right away. In both
cases, if there is going to be an issue in covering any marks or unfinished
areas we try to inform the customer of what to expect.After we do the removal which is usually done before we make
the new tops we decide how to deal with it. On the last job we had this issue
come up we (the customer and I) had decided the best way to handle it was to
increase the edge thickness to allow more coverage over the cabinet. They paid
extra and loved the job when we were done.Some times people will decide to take care of it themselves,
and it is funny how when a customer fixes the problem it may look like crap
when they are done but they think it looks good, however when they have someone
else do the job it needs to be perfect. Oh well, I guess when you are paying
someone to do a job your expectations are a lot higher. Other times we have trimmed it with a matching piece of the
countertop material. And some times they may get someone else to come in a trim
it out when we are done.We also have a stipulation in our contract stating that we
are not responsible for plumbing, electrical, or painting touch up. But I have
found that it is still a good idea to go over every detail that may be an issue and
discuss that issue specifically. If I know that a new backsplash won’t come up
as high as the old one or if the new top won’t come out far enough to cover an
old mark I try to point out those areas specifically so they understand.I do remember a job
we did about a year ago and the customer had new wallpaper done prior to
removing the old tops. When I made a comment about that not being the best way
to do it she said another countertop shop told her to do it that way, so what
do you say? I pointed out areas that I felt may be a problem and explained in
detail that it may not cover. She said she had kept some of the paper and she
could piece it in if she needed too.After the job was
done we got our survey back and she put on it that she was upset that we did
not cover where the old top was and she had just paid all this money to have
the new wallpaper done. WHAT!!! I was so upset I made an appointment with her
and showed her that these were the same areas that I had specifically talked to
her about. Ends up that she was upset with the first shop that told her to have
the wall paper done first and she was taking it out on us. She apologized and
said she loved the new countertops. I wonder what would have happened if she
filed a complaint with the BBB before I saw the survey and talked to her about
it. I could have been made out to be the bad guy.Are you a member of the BBB. They keep calling us and saying
they have a lot of people inquire about our business and that we should join. I
think it is more of a sales pitch and I see no reason to join at this point.lt;br>
Shane
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