-
Posts
-
What are you guys doing with slide ins. There is only 2-3″ of material left at the back. Do you put a full depth top in place and then cut out for the stove, or, do you hard seam a strip at the back, or, do you soft seam a strip at the back. Both for applied splash and cove.
I don’t like the idea of only a few inches of material tying two sections of top together. We have been soft seaming a piece behind the stoves or cooktops. Actually the same situation applies with drop front sinks. What have you been doing in that case?
Paul
We do a soft seam behind the oven if there is only about 2″. If there is more, we will do the hard seam.
Shane does the hard seam all the time (i think) and he doesn’t have any problem with it. I think it is personal preference.
We do a soft seam also, normally I attach a 2″ x 4″ to the wall and silicone the strip to that and the other tops. If you do a hard seam you have to treat it like a cooktop cutout with corner blocks, etc.
Your right Andy, we always do a hard seem at a slide in range if we don’t do the top straight through and cut it out on site (which we do most of the time) and Jon is also right in that you need to do the corner blocks. It is a matter of preference as Andy said and either method works but I think it would be important to inform the customer if you are doing a soft seam so they know what to expect. Same goes for the farm style sinks, we do a solid piece and run it straight through on the back side. We like everything hard…uh…..you know…. the seams.
Shane
I just about always flat capped both sides of the range and hard seamed the piece inbetween. I would super glue a small piece of material on both ends to keep the strip flush and easy to sand off the adhesive. Apply a 3/4″ thick plywood cleat to the wall. NOTE: make sure the weight of the range is not resting on the top. If for some reason the small seams ever fail,not likely, it will not trail/snake through the flat cap on each side. If it’s a high rise or multi unit project and you got chewed down on price, have the general buy the trim piece that is offered by the appliance Mfger. Then just run the splash across. SO MANY OPTIONS AND SO LITTLE TIME!
All:
If you soft seam, you are never getting a callback. With proper color matched caulk, it’s pretty inconspicious and very fast. I’ve done it both ways, but only repaired failed hard seams done by others.
Dave, good tip on the weight of the range resting on the feet instead of the top, but these appliances are often installed by others long after we’re gone. Another good reason to soft seam.
Joe
Dave:
Excuse please. Twice in a row. Yeesh.
I only had one glass of wine with dinner. Good thing my pistol’s in the drawer and I’m not going out.
Joe
Another perspective,
Eighteen years and only one call back with doing a hard seam, and that was before we were strapping our seams, I would say that would not justify changing to a soft seam. If Joe is seeing a lot of failures from doing a hard seam it is because of substandard work. I think it comes down to the type of work you want to do and how you want the finish job to look. In my opinion doing a soft seam in that location may look good at first, but given the fact that it is in one of the messiest areas of the kitchen with all the grease splatters and cooking residues it is not going to stay “pretty inconspicuous” for very long.
As I stated in my previous post, most of the time we run the top straight through and cut out for the range on site, due to the fact that we do a lot of cove splashes. When we do run through we don’t run the edge profile or finish sand in the area to be cut out, to save on the labor. If it is not a coved splash we will still never do soft seams.
From when I first started fabricating solid surface the one thing I stand by is going the extra distance on every job, no matter if it is a Lowe’s job or a high end custom job. We are very attentive to every detail and this has really helped sell our work, for example, a while back I had a guy come in that manufactures house boats. He does very high end work, custom cabinets and trim throughout as well as solid surface everywhere. He came to me from a referral because he was not happy with the work he was getting from another shop. After talking with him about my business and what we have to offer I took him back in the shop to show him around. When we got to the fabrication area he looked at a top face down on the table that had the edge done and the substrate and seam straps applied. As he was looking at it he said HOLLY CRAP, I asked him what’s wrong and he replied, “you guys clean the glue squeeze out off the inside of the edge, and round over and sand it smooth” then said “this must be a very high end kitchen” I told him it was a Lowe’s job and that we do this on every job high end or not. He was very impressed with every thing he saw and I am now doing his houseboats. I think showing customers the work in process can be more valuable than even the best showrooms. Moral of the story is that sometimes going the extra distance on every job will be more profitable in the long run than doing it the fast and easy way.
For those of you that do the soft seams please don’t be offended by this post, I do not mean to imply that your work is substandard. I just wanted to give a different point of view and let every one know that if it is done correctly you will not get call backs as Joe stated.
Shane
Shane:
I don’t disagree with a word you said. Especially “If Joe is seeing a lot of failures from doing a hard seam it is because of substandard work.”
A cove splash adds a lot more strength to the small top area around a slide-in cut out.
Many times between the cut-out and the splash you’ve only got about 3/4″ of top showing. A soft seam is going to to stay inconspicuous if you leave a little color matched caulk in the joint.
Speaking of boats, I put the solid surface tops in Scottie Pippin’s yacht.
Joe
Joe,
As much as he likes to play poker you should have sold him a custom solid surface poker table.
I think it is kind of fun working on these house boats, the guy making them puts a lot of attention to detail so there not so much like an RV. I guess for the 7500 to 15,000 a week to rent you would want nothing but the best.
Shane
We’ve always done it like Shane, strap the narrow part, cut out on site and in place. Haven’t had a failure yet.
Did run into one slide in that instead of flaring out at the point where the front edge hit the countertop edge, it flared in. Physically impossible to install with out showing a bit of gap. Damned engineers…….
I run them solid through the back cut out ahead of time, but have built a nice board sytem to stabilze everything during transport and install. Also no problems so far.
We cut the opening on the CNC, with the proper cutout depth and width, apply corner blocks, but leave a strip of material at least about 8″ wide, set back from the front edge. This gets cutout on site and used as color match. Sand the sides nice and smooth get rid of any saw or router marks, apply radii top and bottom of that cutout. Works well for us, we just make sure we charge for the full square footage. If by chance they forget to tell us and change at the last minute, we usually slap a soft seam back there for them to save them the $$$.
I do the same as Shane and Matt. Always run the top through as one piece. I never make the cut out on site- too much mess. I always charge for the sq. ft of the stove area. The cut out is too small for a counter so it ends up as scrap or cutting boards or used on the job as reinforcement straps or corners.
When I took my Corian Certifacation class in Torrance CA. The instructor indicated that he always hard seamed a piece at the back and the front when making a cut out for a drop in dook top. That way he could save 2 ln. ft of sheet and possibly avaid purchasing an extra half sheet if the job layed out close on material. With Corian, seams are allowed through cut outs and reinforcement strap is required to be beveled.
My thought is, if it’s a warrantable fabrication practice, why not save the material. The material is more expensive than the time it takes to seam the pieces in. Not every layout warrants this approach but sometimes it can save the cost of an extra half sheet.
Johnny C
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.