[Vince McCarthy]

My Guys are asking me if their are any Tricks that a newbe can follow to polish Formica Solidsurface and not get swearls. I’m thinking they are not spending enough time on the lower grits before moving on.

My guys are used to granite and having a little problem with Solidsurface

Any sugestions would be apreaciated

Vince McCarthy

[Shawn Z]

Vince, What brand abrasives & grits are you using and on what type of tool?

Dave

[swampdonkie]

One more thing: What type of finish are you trying to achieve? Matte, Satin, Semi-gloss, Gloss…

Dave

[Bob Richey]

Hey Vince,

To get rid of the swirls. Try the following. Between each grit, starting with the first, wipe the top down to get rid of all dust and grit that may of come off during sanding. Do this between all steps. On your final grit (60 micron for matte/220g) let the sander do the work. Also when you scotch brite try doing it wet. especially on darker colors. Finish with a maroon scotch brite for matte or gray for a little more depth. If you don’t have a Gem sander yet make that a priority. After 20+ years of frabricating I still prefer the 3M micron paper over regular grit paper. Word for the wise, darker colors just flat out take more time and anything made shiny doesn’t stay shiny. Hope this helps and I typed it correctly per my thoughts.

Wes

[Dani Homrich]

Hi Vince,

Here is a little reading on sanding.

Sanding info01

The biggest mistake fabricators make is sanding out factory scratches with too coarse of a grit. They actually make the scratches worse in the deck than they started with, making a lot more work and time to finish there tops. By sanding with 100µ you are putting scratches in the deck that are twice as deep as the factory scratches. This means you have to sand off 0.002” of deck material just to get back to the factory finish of 60µ or P220g. The end result is that those 100µ scratches don’t completely get removed, and when the customer starts cleaning there top, they make the surface shiner, When that happens, light reflected off the surface will show all those 100µ scratches that did not get completely removed making the deck look horrible and a customer complaint. DO NOT SAND YOUR DECK SURFACE WITH 100µ, Big MiStAKe. My starting grit is 60µ on the deck and I only use 80µ to sand out adhesive squeeze out and router chatter, but I never sand out the squeeze out or chatter all the way with 80µ. I sand only enough to remove what is left with 60µ. I don’t want to have to sand out those 80µ scratches.

Sanding info – the average deep scratch is between .005” and .010” deep and a .020” scratch is huge. 60g sand paper grit is .01045” in size the same size as your average deep scratch. 100g sandpaper grit size .005” . 180g or 80µ sand paper grit size is .003” in size. 220g sandpaper grit is .00257” and 60µ sandpaper grit is .0023” the same size of the average lineal factory scratches. What I am saying is if you are sanding out your factory scratches with 180g or larger then you are putting deeper scratches in your deck then you started with making more sanding time wasted.

Note: The deep scratches you put in the deck by sanding out scratches with too coarse of a grit cause your dull spots, because you are not sanding out the scratches you put in the deck by sanding out the deep scratches. Never sand out a deep scratch all the way, if you do you are making more work for your self and a possible dip. Only sand it out half way then finish with a finer grit.

To polish a deck this is my recommended sand method.

• SANDING – Sand deck to a minimum of 15µ. I recommend wet sanding on all grits, ( 60µ – 30µ – 15µ ) I do not recommend sanding the deck with 80µ, it is too time consuming to remove the 80µ scratches, but 80µ maybe used for deep scratches, but only sand the scratch out half way then finish with 60µ. If you sand out the scratch all the way with 80µ you will have to sand more in that area to get the 80µ scratches out causing a dip in that area. Use a squirt bottle with water and a window squeegee and dish bucket to remove the water. Clean sander before you start sanding and between each grit. This means remove the pad clean the counter weight, the back of the pad, and the holes, if this is not done you will have contamination falling on your deck as you sand from previous sanding procedures, causing pig-tails and deeper scratches than you are sanding with.

1 Do not sand with STANDARD CAMI , P- EUROPEAN GRADE, or Open Coat sand paper if you expect a good finish after polishing. These grits are not refined enough to give a fine enough finish to polish, but are great for matt or satin.

2 Sand only with Electrocoated film in micron grit I suggest 3M268L with Holes, the holes help to eliminate the hydroplaning problem of sanding a flat surface with water. I do supply the film in a Mixed packet of 60&t;/SPAN>µ, 30µ, & 15µ – 10 disc of each grit for those of you that only polish a job occasionally.

3 Remove all dust shrouds on your sander so you can squirt water into the holes of the pad while sanding, this helps to reduce the amount of water you need while sanding.

4 Remember to clean your sander before and between each grit. Failure to do this will only add more sanding time to your job because every scratch in the deck WILL show up when you start polishing.

After all the sanding I recommend to use my polishing kit to polish your tops it is much more user friendly than the tradition methods and gives you a much more even finish. It is availble in a 5″ , 6″ and a 6″ for the Fesstool.

Dani Homrich

Dani Designs

[Paul Bingham]

We sand to 600 grit on Formica and then use an air driven polisher with polishing compound on a natural wool pad. We add liberal amounts of water to keep the surface cool. It takes about 2 minutes from the 600 grit to a high polish on a 48″ vanity top. It’s a little messy but works very well.

Paul

[Shane Barker]

Dave,

I believe Vince said “to polish Formica Solidsurface” I would take that as a polished finish. Though I may not agree with everything Dani teaches I can say that he probably knows more about sanding and polishing Solid Surface than anybody in the industry. Oh yea..my head does hurt a little too…that was a lot of reading.

Shane

[John Cristina]

Dave,

I use Dani’s system here at my shop why do you think I ordered 15micron from you last month, remember? Shops that use regular grit sandpaper usually do the same six light colors and need to get them out fast and cheap. If you take the time to compare the finishes, the micron produces a more even, better finish because the particulates are uniform in size and sit more evenly on the film. When it is my choice, micron is the way to go. When it comes to buffing to a high finish I have seen some shops ruin tops with those high speed machines. Dani’s system is pretty hard to screw up.

John Cristina

[robin@oystra]

You’re right Shane, he did say “polish” but I have people say that and they don’t mean high gloss. Anyway, yes, Dani knows his stuff. Please realize I’m coming from a distributors point and when dealing with 100’s of fabricators, nobody does it the same way. Drives you crazy…especially from a what do I stock this month perspective. Yep, John did purchase some 15 micron 6″ Hookit. Had to borrow it from a friendly competitor who happened to have it in his warehouse, and had it there for over a year! Did him a favor by taking it off of his hands. Again, sanding…polishing solid surface is not rocket science and my job is to get the customer that finish he or she requires in as economical a way as possible.

Dave

[John Cristina]

Dave,

Those 50 pcs will last me quite a long time, there is hardly any polishing around here.

John

[Darrell Andregg]

John, if you need me to stock a certain Micron, you know I will. But, with all the differant pad sizes & hole patterns: 3″,5″.6″,8″11″,11 1/4″…5H.6H,8H,8H+centerhole, 16H…and backings, PSA,HOOKIT,HOOKIT II, and Micron grades…15,30,60,80,100,150,180 and others, you can see that the variables are numerous. We even keep 11 1/4″ HOOKIT II 15 Micron (600g) in stock for the GEM sander as it has become quite popular with some of our customers.

Dave

[Vince McCarthy]

Thanks guys

I’ll pass this on to my guys

[Davis Linder]

Kinda going in a different direction here…

Does anybody out there prefer the Abralon paper over the 3M Micron paper? We use micron and like it but I know EOS recommends the Abralon as does Chemcore (Dovae). The Abralon I’ve priced seems much more expensive than the micron. Wondering if it’s worth it.

[Nathan Crowley]

Well, funny you should ask. I just had this conversation with a customer yesterday. He wanted a box of 6″ 360g Abralon. He needed it for a dark solid surface as he was getting swirl marks with micron.(Think it was the air sander he was using) We had 1 box and I sent it to him. $77.00 for 20 pieces…OUCH! I suggested in the future that after 60 micron(220g) or even 30 Micron(400g) he go to a 3M FINESSE-IT product with a buffer & wool pad(I have customers using it that way) or 3M’s TRIZACT system. A heck of a lot cheaper than Abralon in the long haul. 3M’s High Gloss finish sequence with TRIZACT is as follows:

3M 366L 100 Micron

3M TRIZACT 268XA A35 (Green) Damp

3M TRIZACT 268XA A10 (Blue) Damp

3M TRIZACT 268XA A5 (Orange) Damp

3M TRIZACT 568XA Cerium Oxide (White) Damp/ I would reccomend more than damp.

Although TRIZACT can be kind of pricey, it definately gets the job done and does not equate to the pricing of ABRALON and lasts (in my opinion) a lot longer.

Dave

[John Cristina]

A lot of people when finishing even when they change grits do not clean the sander they are working with nor do they clean the top between each step properly. Bad finishes in my opion are not due to tools or equipment but bad technique or operator error. Abralon is nice but I think you can get the same results with micron for a lot less money. If you see a couple of pcs of micron on your finishing floor its no big deal but if you see a couple of pcs of abralon destroyed on the floor the money signs start rolling in your head.

What does Dani H. think about the abralon product?

John

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