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How many hours do you figure for an average 2 1/2 sheet job?
We always send two guys for installs and they spend anywhere from 5 – 7 hours at the job site. I feel like we are spending too much time, but every effort to cut down, doesn’t seem to do much.
Keep in mind this is a custom, retail job.
I don’t know how the install time is figured, but this is one thing I have heard of that slows down install time. This applies all across the board, but installers especially need to be really careful about this as the job has no lead time once it gets to them. It is natural for all of us to want to show as much progress as fast as we can, so both installers have a tendency to take in the “drop-in” easy tops and install those first before working on the field-seamed or fitted top(s). If things are done in this sequence, there eventually comes a time in the install when the junior installer will just be “holding down the saw horses”, when they could be installing tops that they can handle and caulking those tops.
Have a nice day,
Seth
We try in fabricate jobs so one Guy can handle it. I hate seeing two guys drive off. But if we have to we’ll send two.
All our tops are installed with two. We fit and set the most demanding pieces first and while the adhesive is setting we install the easier pieces. While one is finishing the site seams the other is drilling holes and caulking, etc.
The average job takes about 3.5 to 4 hours not including travel time.
Paul
We only have two installers. We use three vendors to install as well. I like to use them on the long distance installs. Set price .
I save our installers for the local jobs. Or the more complicated type.
Andy, we’re about the same as you. There is an extra cost to scribing every top onsite, but we make it a habit. Although lately Mory is challenging my assumptions on that.
Seth, my installers know that the sink top comes first (unless laminate wall sheets are in the mix), so that the customer gets the sink hooked up whether we finish or not.
Jon – wow! one guy is the norm for your installs?
Paul, we have a lot of the same attitudes.
Tom
Andy wrote
How many hours do you figure for an average 2 1/2 sheet job?
We always send two guys for installs and they spend anywhere from 5 – 7 hours at the job site. I feel like we are spending too much time, but every effort to cut down, doesn’t seem to do much.
Keep in mind this is a custom, retail job.
5-7 hours? Wow… on a 2 1/2 sheet with 1 field seam, I average 2 1/2- 3 hours. Like Seth said, I start with the Field seam first, then during the 45-60 minutes it is curing, I set the other piece or two. Almost always, I can complete the rest of the kitchen while the seam is setting. This is for a set on splash.
I just did a 3 1/2 sheet, set corbels, 4 backsplash outlet cutouts, 2 field seams, 4 1/2 hrs.
On the other hand, I don’t think I have ever tops on a job where I could have done it all alone. Jon, either you have superman working for you, or you do many field seams.???
kc
Andy,
We do a particular model for a builder that takes exactly 21/2 sheet per house. We send two guys and it takes anywhere from 1 1/2 to a little over 2 hrs depending on how level the cabinets are. We should never have to scribe anything since we shoot it with a laser for the templates so everything fits real well. I can see spending more time on cutting the receptacle cut outs but we precut those in the shop as well which saves about 30 minutes in the field. I dont know about Jon’s area up there but we could never send one guys to install, even if we reduced the majority of the tops a little. Here everyone has a raised bar top and some of them get rather large. I hate seaming a bar top in the field, takes too long to level out properly.
John
About the same as KC. Thursday in the home at 9:00, out by noon on a two and a half sheet job, then two hours friday installing the full height back splash with a ton of height changes and outlet holes. Feild seam, k-3 avonite so we had to polish. Me and one new guy for helping set up tools and a little sanding.
Andy, go out with one of the guys on an install and set the standard. Then go out with the other guy. No excuses left. Have you got a gps tracking them? Booby bar maybe?
My guys are really good so I am not concerned about them not doing the job right. Our policy is that we aren’t going back to the job unless they buy another top. We rarely go back and we rarely have a warranty issue. That is what I like.
I am going to look at making some changes.
KC and Al,
Remember that you guys are experts with many years experience in the field. Of course I can install faster but I am not the one doing it. What happens when you send someone less experienced?
Andy, I would never call myself an expert, just motivated to get it done and get paid. I think people use inexperience as a crutch. True as they gain experience, they work with more confidence, but really this isn’t rocket science in my humble experience.
Yeah, the help won’t work as fast as the boss. Get used to it?
Andy, back in my install days we sent 1 guy to do the job even if it ment an extra seam or 2 on the job. If you send 2 guys and they take 5-7 hours that may be all they do that day, 1 guy can do that same job in a 7-9 hour day. This way your 2 guys do 2 installs a day…. it worked for us, that is of course we where doing a large comercial job then we sent a crew.
Andy, What happens if there is no field seam? I don’t believe I have ever spent more than 2 hrs on an install if there was no field seams?
If I had guys spending that amount of time on an install, I would have to show up on the job when they start, help get the material in and leave, then show up again 2 hrs later. I bet if you check you are not getting your monies worth.
Are you saying every job takes them a full day??
All:
I worked in a production shop that loaded three kitchens on a truck for two men to install in one day with standard splash. The owner was convinced we would go broke if we did any less. He’s still in business.
Joe
I agree with Karl. If you send two installers v/s one you can count on it taking more man hours to do the install. I haven’t sent two people on an install in over 12 years, unless it was just around the corner from the shop and all they had to do was help bring in a big top in one piece so that I could avoid a site seam. After that is done send them back to the shop. Windsheild time is expensive if you pay by the hour. And knowing that I might have paid someone to hold down a sawhorse makes me nasty to be around.
I set a maximum limit of 20 sq. ft. for any given piece for one man to install. Beyond that it requires a site seam. I prefer not to do site seams on middle of the room islands so I might go up to 25 ft. I have always come out ahead using one man and an extra site seam if necessary.
This discussion has not specified set-on splash or coved. Set on splash takes longer. I would give a 2-1/2 sheet job with set on splash and 3 site seams 4 1/2 to 6 hrs. All scribing and recept holes done in the shop.
Johnny C
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