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All:
Since we’re talking about integrity, I’d like to share a short story:
Several weeks ago, I wrote a satirical piece which was an imaginary conversation between Oxley and Vanessa Bates, ISSFA President. I posted same on the site whose first letter begins with “G” and ends with “S” with “eek” in between. (I’ve been admonished for linking to there from here so I won’t say or type the name.) I posted under the “ISSFA and the IRS” thread.
I was really on a roll at the time and I thought this was some of my best stuff. I laughed my butt off typing this thing. It stayed up for most of the day and was deleted. I was a bit disappointed, but not entirely surprised. I got my usual courtesy email from Len explaining he pulled the plug until he had time to think it over.
I got a tip that Oxley had called Len and urged him to pull the piece. Len checks that site like a lioness guards her den with cubs in it, so it looked particualrly suspicious that he let the post stay most of the day then pulled it. He usually bounces me within an hour or so if he’s going to at all. (How pathetic that I have this knowledge.) Now I’m kind of P.O’d and I email Len and tell him I think he censored me at Oxley’s request.
Len calls me and tells me that yes, he did get a call from Oxley requesting deletion, but that he made the decision to pull it himself before he got the call.
I have to believe him. He’s never lied to me and has always been fair. Even though the timing looks a little suspicious, Len’s track record trumps in my book. Integrity comes in handy, especially in a close call.
Joe
Tom, I was wondering how Andy missed that one at 9:19. Okay, check fire it is for a few days.
So how many directors are there, how many are they replacing and are they the ones we want replaced? If we draft Joe for a director slot, how many others will be needed to turn this around?
Gentlemen, may I respectfully submit that this has now become nothing more than pissing in a fan. I think it is now time to look forward, instead of back and worry about marketing ones own business without regard to a quasi association that apparently does little or nothing for you.
As I have stated in the past, I have many very large solid surface fabricators, who have been customers for years, who pump out an obscene amount of tops and have NEVER belonged to ANY association nor do they care to. In other words, their profits come from hard work and their own marketing. Period!
Let the “powers that be” in the “association” wallow in their own muck as soon enough, said muck will enveolpe them to the point of non entity. If not already there !
Dave and Andy:
I must respectfully disagree.
The fact that there are large fabricators who are not ISSFA members shows just how low a priority the present ISSFA administration places recruitment. The treatment of Mory and Andy show just how low a priority retention of existing members is.
You’ve all heard of the 80/20 rule. I’d be willing to bet that 20% of fabricators do 80% of the work. That’s why it’s so important to find out who the new and existing ISSFA members are. To be successful and powerful, ISSFA needs to recruit most of these large 20% of fabricators. If you go to the ISSFA annual meeting and hear how the organization has met it’s growth goals, it has no meaning without context. You must find out if the new members are players or a bunch of one-man-in-a-garage operators. I’m quite qualified to speak on behalf of the small, ’cause I am one. Of course, ISSFA may not want the true makeup of it’s members made public. After all, if it’s all small shops why would the sponsors sponsor?
I don’t know what Oxley and Wolle and the rest of the ISSFA staff do all day, but pounding the pavement for large-shop new members should be job one and retaining the large-shop members is job two. When Mike Duggan ran the show, he hired a guy full-time for this position. But then Mike was a visionary who knew what the hell he was doing.
When ISSFA members tire of the lies and scandals and are ready to have a powerful transparent organization lead with integrity, they know how to contact me.
Joe
And I’ll betcha that 80% of fabricators large or small don’t care about an association and 20% may be there for a sticker on the door !
I respectfully submit that this has now become nothing more than pissing in a fan.Dave, I think it has evolved into a start. That makes it relevent. So far, very dignified but deliberate questions are starting to be asked. There is a response to the minutes question, and I asked for clarification. It’s gonna take time to make stuff happen, but I still see people inside and out who would like this to work.
Some of us still want them to be relevent, and we know they can be. I understand your lack of connection, but I still have conviction. ISSFA is in a good place to make happen what would take more time for someone else. This asset is a waste if not used.
Al, I got a response in the general section over there, that a “short form” of the minutes is being sent for inclusion in the next available Surface Fab. I have asked why they can’t be posted on the site. That will be responded to with something that will lead to another question. That’s the way it seems to work, and if I have to play that tune, that’s alright.
I do not know the answers to your other questions, unfortunately. That is part of the reason why I’m trying to help. You see, after I left the State Coordinator role, I fell away from the inside stuff. That was a mistake, and I want to at least try to correct it.
It seems that both Joe and I still have some skin in the game. Jon is doing great over there. Seth, Norm, all the computer guys are putting on steam. I will not walk away while movement is in the right direction.
Tom
One more thing:
I had a fantastic dinner with some of the original Ct. members Tuesday night. Only one was thinking about not renewing, and while I didn’t pressure him, I hope I convinced him to stick it out. To be fair, a fabricator friend whose opinions I value beyond most others was one of the first to hang it up with ISSFA. Also from Ct. This was quite a few years ago.It seems a Catch-22 of sorts. ISSFA needs members to get strong again. In their present form, I fear they are losing some of the best and brightest. They can’t change without support, and they won’t get support unless they change.
My head hurts.
Tom
Jon:
“You are making the most sense here.” implies that Tom’s post makes more sense than mine.
I went back and reread each and both made equal sense to me. Both express a hopeful attitude.
Please be more specific as to what doesn’t make sense or as much sense in my post.
Thanks,
Joe
An orginazation starts with fabricators standing shoulder to shoulder, standing firm together as a group against a common cause. An organization with fire in its belly. The organization starts to grow and starts to offer more and more programs, requires more money to operate. More money then membership dues alone can support. Where does that money come from?
More and more money is needed and “donations” are needed from non fabricators. Some of these donations are huge sums of money. Maybe even more that the fabricators dues alone amount to?
At what point does the voice of money take over? At what point are the opinions of this organization “for sale” to the higest bidder? At what point are the voices of fabricators silenced for this “fix” of cash? Has this already happened? Please don’t f’n get me going as I’m still on vacation and fly home tomorrow.
“The revolution will not be televised”
Gill Scott Haren (sp)
“We have met the enemy and he is us”
Pogo
Joe,
I paid Jon good money to say that.
Just kidding Jon. No, really.Joe, I don’t know if you have access to the board over there still, but things are hopefully moving in the right direction. I am getting responses to my questions, and I think they are at least in good faith, if not chock full of insight. If Jon is following this, which I hope he is, as I’m overflowing with gushing praise for his efforts (and Norm, and Seth…), I hope he sees that I’m trying to get answers to questions which have been raised here and elsewhere.
I would like to nominate someone to position of board member. Jon is one choice. Can you provide me with any insight to others? Are you serious about re-upping your membership?
Tom
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