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So the phone rings today, it was the woman from issfa , Sheri or Sharon asking about my application. I said I was ready, had the application filled out and the check written, but was waiting for the results of the board meeting about our old buddy (edited name by admin), Vendetta, the trespasser and snoop. She played dumb for a few minutes, then “remembered”. She said some computer committee or outfit had reveiwed what happened and said no law was broken and no harm done, so what ever supposed suspension Joe Winters got was his punishment.
This flies in the face of what Oxley had said would happen on the matter. I’ll get into detail later tonight.
I told her that I would need to think more about joining issfa, that some members had convinced me that this trespassing matter was being taken seriously and that issfa wasn’t totaly corrupt. I told her that this whitewash had convinced me otherwise and I wanted to talk to a few people before making up my mind.
I’ll keep an open mind, for a few days about Oxley, but it is looking like people hate this guy for good reasons.
Okay, guys. I like my crow well done so get to cooking.
Al,
I posted a request at 10:38 on (link was for a member only section on another BB – edit by admin). I’d like to give some time for a response.I also will be talking to some old-timers from ISSFA tonight. It maybe quite a discussion.
Tom
Al, two questions:
Are you outing (name removed – edit by admin) as the V culprit?
and
Why are you suggesting that you need to eat crow?Tom
All:
I just had a very interesting telephone conversation with Joe Winters, ISSFA’s Webmeister. This is the second time we’ve spoken.
Joe says he has been instructed not to read this site at work, he is not Vendetta and has no idea what or who Vendetta is and he has not been given any time off whatsoever for any reason.
I found Joe to be a nice guy and very straightforward. I hope to stay in touch.
Sometimes you just gotta call people,
Joe
P.S.
I originally left Joe an email to call me and he returned my call from the ISSFA office which he was supposedly suspended from at the time.
All,
I said I wasn’t going to waste my time with this any more, but I had to jump in. My membership is up on the 15th of this month. So I won’t have any say at all. Here is the kind of stuff I have been dealing with forever. E-mail from Oxley-We have suspended Joe. That was a flat out beligerant lie. Lying to the fabricators that are paying “his” salary. How else can I spell liar? Just that alone should be enough to call for his resignation. As far as I am concerned I am FRICKING DONE with that organization. Anyway, good to hear from you Joe C. I believe everything you say. I don’t know what is worse–The Lies or The B.S.
Mory
Joe C., the issfa lady didn’t deny that (name removed – by admin) had snooped the site using a “borrowed” password. She confirmed the rumor that he had been suspended for a time as punishment for his misdeeds. She insisted that what he did was punishment enough since he broke no law or trust.
No doubt you have already read Mory’s post, which is the fourth separate confirmation of who this guy is. I do believe he was told not to read the site at work, perhaps that was his punishment. So, we have only two scenarios, one is that he is lying. Two is that he was framed.
Okay, if the first scenario is true, he is just digging a hole for himself. Too many people have outed him, it’s been common knowledge for 7 to 10 days now. His job is probally safe at issfa, knows where the bodies are buried even though he hasn’t been there that long. Might have some data socked away as well, come on, an IT guy probally isn’t dumb if he indeed did do this.
If the second is true, then he must know he is protecting someone, willingly or not, by not going public when this came out. Or maybe he is an unwilling and unknowing pawn. Either way it just points to what a lot of you were saying about the rot in their culture, and they say fish rot from the head.
Regardless, as Mory put it so well, ISSFA is lying about his suspension. This is confirmed, is it not? So why not lie about everything else?
Joe, I respect your opinion and the time you have spent trying to get ISSFA back on track. What is your opinion on how deep this goes?
Mory, While I’m 99% distributor, I also manufacture a product. How does the “not sit well with you” part of manufactures relate to me?
Advise.
Tom,
(name removed – by admin) has been confirmed, by mutliple independent sources, as the “hacker” for lack of a better term. One source told me that Vendetta and the hacker were the same. Oxley told me, in an email which I may post here very soon, that there were others involved in the entire episode. However, the statements refer to “the person under investigation” and later on in the email, “the person”, leading me to read this as the hacker and Vendetta were the same, as he wrote about this being the worst representation of issfa.
Oxley knows whether Vendetta and (name removed – by admin) are the same person. Ask him.
I’m having to eat crow because I believed that it was possible that ISSFA would use this situation to do the right thing.
Now, I have $400.00 that I would love to be the first deposit in a bank account for a new solid surface fabricator association. I’ve set up non profit’s before, but it has been a while. Does anyone know what is currently required?
It is time to do it. All I ask is that when it is formed, allow an easy method to recall all staff or officials, even the board if they lose the confidence of say, 40% of the membership.
“Joe C, I respect your opinion and the time you have spent trying t get ISSFA back on track. What is your opinion on how deep this goes?”
Al:
If you want to know how deep it goes, you have to go back to the begining. For those who have heard this all before, quit reading now. Al asked and I’m answering.
The first night I met Oxley, he bragged about firing Lenny Elbon from ISSFA. “I fired his ass.” to be specific.”Didn’t fit the mission statement.” I thought this was a very strange way to handle personnel issues at any organization and stranger still because with Lenny’s immense popularity and respect in the industry (expert witness, multiple patent holder, etc.etc.) how can one be proud of canning an icon? Oxley didn’t know or care he was talking about a friend of mine. Lenny went so ballistic when he read this information on the original ISSFA bulletin board that Oxley pulled the plug and made it members only. He called Lenny in China to deny he said this. You can believe Oxley or you can believe me, but you can’t believe both of us.
I knew the minute that Oxley started pussyfooting around instead of issuing Mory an immediate 2K refund for his Everycontractor.com website that he and I were in philosophically different worlds. I begged Oxley to drop everything he was doing and cut Mory a check. “Don’t worry, Oxley is on it.” Several months and gallons of internal bloodletting later, Mory had his money and The ISSFA site still had Oxley’s glowing testimonial for a program that cost ISSFA members tens of thousands of dollars and, I swear I’m not making this up, never produced a lead that was run, closed, fabricated, installed and collected! The full page ISSFA ad in the June ’06 Surface Fabrication magazine still touts “internet leads” an an ISSFA member benifit. To my knowledge, no one has ever recieved such a lead. Again, you can’t believe both of us.
This would not be the first time the ISSFA BOD has overlooked a serious ethical lapse. After our telephone conversation and at his request, I emailed a copy of an internet escort service testimonial by Everycontractor.com to ISSFA President Richard Christ. Apparently Mr. Christ thought our close association with an organization promoting prostitution had no reflection on us as he did nothing. However, I did earn the scorn of many fellow fabricators for bringing this to light.
I suppose it’s possible that Oxley didn’t know that everything at the ITEC center was very valueable and donated but somehow he managed to tell the Internal Revenue Service, despite their very specific question, that it wasn’t in 2004. I knew it. You pick who you believe, but you can’t have both.
I’ve been called a lot of things on these boards, some not flattering and a few of those deserved. Nobody’s called me a liar. I’m not talkin’ about a missed fact or misstatement, I’m talkin’ about a deliberate attempt to decieve. When you prove that, I will renew my vow to disembowel myself with a Dani clamp on the floor of the Orlando show in front of the ISSFA booth with Oxley watching.
Now Oxley has sent emails implicating his Webmeister and expressing regret for his actions and we have the Webmeister denying everything. You pick who you believe, but you can’t have both.
Joe
Joe,
I really want to have a drink
with you in Fla. I’m buying. I need to hear stuff….ask questions. If
you are tired of being bugged about this, I will understand. To date, no one has ever recieved such a lead. Again, you can’t believe both of us.I’m not sure, but I think I technically got some leads. I don’t think any turned into jobs and that does count, in my book.
Please forgive my ignorance on the Everycontractor thing. I built my own site and just had them host, but after a year of awesome service when I needed the help, I bought into a great deal (at the time) on hosting for a four year term. I don’t remember signing up for any extra cost lead generation (but I could be wrong on that). My only problem with EC dot com is that they don’t have Front Page extensions which is starting to really suck.
Did some of you guys pay ISSFA, instead of ECdot com? Why?
I have a separate post next, for Andy or Mory.
Tom
Andy (I think),
My apologies for putting the name out there. I should have known better. Even in the form of a question.
You missed one at 9:19.What I don’t understand is the edit of the link.
OH! I get it. It was a members only section over there. Sorry man, I’m an idiot.Al,
I want to give them some time for a response, so I thought we should check fire for a bit. Joe was absolutely right when he said to ask them. I did. For me, that’s when the clock started ticking.Four days will be too much . Two days will p*ss me off, but I’ll deal. I don’t think it will take that long. At least for a response, anyway. If there is no response, it may seal the deal for me out of principle alone, and that won’t be easy for me. I was there at the start. I will know how Mory felt, and Joe felt and must feel. Andy was the friggin fabricator of the year.
I’m not up on Roberts, or Parlimentary procedures. I think Joe might be though, and I would like his input regarding accessibility of meeting minutes in the age of the intertubes. It would at least be nice to know it was dealt with.
Tom
Tom M wrote
Andy (I think),
My apologies for putting the name out there. I should have known better. Even in the form of a question.
You missed one at 9:19.What I don’t understand is the edit of the link.
OH! I get it. It was a members only section over there. Sorry man, I’m an idiot.Tom,No Problem. I deleted the link because of what you said. It really didn’t point to anything because you would have to be a member to view it.Tom M wrote
Joe,
I really want to have a drink with you in Fla. I’m buying. I need to hear stuff….ask questions. If you are tired of being bugged about this, I will understand.Tom, I’m all for drinking especially when you’re buying. I never tire of the truth.
To date, no one has ever recieved such a lead. Again, you can’t believe both of us.
I’m not sure, but I think I technically got some leads. I don’t think any turned into jobs and that does count, in my book.
Right after I typed “no one” I immediately changed it to “to my knowledge” but apparently not before you quoted me. I’m glad someone’s finally gotten something.
Did some of you guys pay ISSFA, instead of ECdot com? Why?
To my knowledge, no one paid ISSFA directly for Everycontractor.com services. To read Oxley’s gooey testimonials, however, you would think they were joined at the hip. When EC refused Mory’s refund, many of us felt that ISSFA should take the hit if EC wouldn’t reimburse. I still think ISSFA should reimburse fabricators the tens of thousands of dollars they lost on a non-functioning lead generation program.If you’re going to run deficits year after year anyway, I’d be nice if fabricators got some of the money.Joe
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