[Shane Barker]

Yeah but the lunches come and go, the CNC is forever.

Shane

[Norm Walters]

You got me there Shane

[Andy Graves]

Thanks Al, I will do some comparison but that give me a great place to start.

[Gordon Shell]

This may sound like another plug for EOS, but I did a time study to show the advantages of 3cm. The kitchen was 34.80 square feet with a set on splash, one field seam and an integral bowl. I have details to support this but don’t know how to attach them here.

the results were

1/2″ material = 11.78 minutes per square foot

3cm material =7.90 minutes per square foot

This study took place in a non-CNC shop with one man building the top.

[Andy Graves]

Gordon,

When you add the additional cost of material and installation, what kind of savings are you seeing. I really like the idea of working with 3cm, I just want to make sure it is truely a money maker and not just another alternative with the same profit margins.

Thanks for the info.

[Gordon Shell]

Andy,

Your material costs should actually decrease. The cost of EOS comes in less than most 1/2″ solid surfaces. Because EOS requires no substrate you will have 100% savings on plywood or MDF. The only solid surface adhesive that is is required would be for seams and bowls, so your adhesive use would decrease by 75-90%( look at all the squeeze-out adhesive on your shop floor when you do stacked edges). Edge rework, because of glue lines or ghost stripes due to particulate floating doesn’t exist with EOS, so consider that 100% savings on rework.

CNC shops are seeing 60-75% savings in fab time and non-CNC shops are seeing 40-60% savings.

I have done a material study to show the use and cost of all consumables that go into 1/2″ top compared to a 3cm top, sounds petty but I have a back ground in process and manufacturing engineering, every penny counts.

Imagine the savings on little things like denatured alcohol (to clean each piece of stacked material), silicone(used to adhere substrate), if you are using less denatured alcohol then you are also using less paper towels or rags, both cost money somewhere. Because EOS doesn’t require seam plates we can count those pieces as material saved also. I can go on and on but I’m afraid I’ll sound to much like an infomercial.

Thanks

[Karl Crooks]

Gordan, do you have any studies that you can share? I’m sure all here would be very interested in them.

[Gordon Shell]

I have a simple excel format study that I can show you, anyone interested can email me @ gordon@eos-surfaces.com and I can attach it to an email for your review.

Working on a comparison against laminate tops now, imagine being able to capture that market with a competetivly priced Solid surface offering, its already being done in some areas.

[Tim Tiessen]

Wouldn’t that drive down the sales of regular solid surface, if you could sell the 3 cm cheaper? Would doing cheaper work be better than doing profitable work? I can see it is going to have staying power, and the savings make sense. Just don’t want to get into cheaper jobs. Cheap jobs come from cheap people and cheap people can save even more money by not paying your bill.

I’m still interesting in the stuff, send my name to one of your distributors. Do you have a sample program for showrooms? If I don’t show it, I can’t sell it.

[Shane Barker]

I agree with Al,

Why not offer a product that has added value to the customer
but cost less to fabricate, and at the same time charge a premium because of
the added value. Oh wait! We might actually make more profit…Oh my!

I think taking the approach to compete with Laminate is a
desperate attempt that will inevitably hurt the Solid Surface market. The 3cm
products have an obvious added value that should carry a premium price or at
least start out that way.

Shane

[John Cristina]

When you run some 3CM jobs you can really see the difference. Its all the little things besides TIME that gshell is talking about that add up to alot of savings. Our shop can produce a 3CM kitchen ready to install much faster than our laminate shop can produce one. If you can profile on your CNC and do an undermount stainless steel, every part of the job can be cut and profiled without re-introducing, it can go directly into the finishing area. We figure between, templating, CAD time, and finishing, a standard 55 sq ft kitchen takes less than 4 man hours.

John

[Andy Graves]

Keep in mind that you just said CNC when you were talking about producing 3cm. That is a huge investment. Sure you save on man hours but you are spending more for:

• Tooling, machine payment
• CNC operater salery, digitizer
• CAD operator
• Floor space for cnc
• Electricity for cnc
• Maintenance on cnc
• Extra man power on installation.

These cost must be factored in because the shop can not absorb such expensive cost. Something has to pay for them and if you are running 3cm, that is what pays for it.

[Rob Parker]

Ok hers one for ya….how many of you actually fabricated an EOS job? Or even sanded it? Ran the seams.

[Shane Barker]

Whats your point Rob

Shane

[Andy Graves]

RobP wrote
Ok hers one for ya….how many of you actually fabricated an EOS job? Or even sanded it? Ran the seams.

Rob,

I sense that you feel that I don’t like the 3cm idea. This is not the case at all. I believe that it is a great idea. I just want to completely understand what I am up against before diving in head first. I don’t think that a 5% saving is enough to justify having different methods of fabrication. It confuses the crap out of the sales staff, the fabricators and the installers when you have two completely different methods.

I am only asking questions so I can better understand.

[Author]

Posts