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I had an incredible yesterday. For those that are not aware of the Patriot Guard Riders http://www.patriotguard.org/Forums/tabid/61/postid/433679/view/topic/Default.aspx. I climed on my Harley about 8:30 and rode 60 miles to stand shoulder to shoulder with 150 of the greatest people you will ever meet. To honor a 19 year old that gave his life for his country. It makes no difference what side of this war your on, we were there to honor a brave young man and his family, that sacrificed everything for others. Yea, the wackos from Kansas were there, all 4 of them, but this has gone way beyond a handful of inbreeds. This was about what our country IS, about good people stepping forward and doing what we as a country have done for 230 plus years.. My wife askes my why I want to go to these, I can’t answer her. I admit Its selfish. I get more from this than I could ever give, for that I feel guilty. I guess its like riding a Harley.. if I have to explain you just wouldn’t understand.
Wags,
Violence cures few problems, but if a few guys would put the boots to the kansas wackos, it would cure that problem. Remember the new york construction guys stomping on a few anti war protesters back in the late sixties? That is freedom of speech, say what you wish, just be ready to suffer the consequences for it.
Hats off to you guys for supporting the families of our military members. I think it is anything but selfish.
Fred Phelps is an embarrassment to the Democratic Party. The thought that someone feels so strong in their (hatefull) opinions that they are willing to disrupt the ultimate opportunity to pay tribute to the fallen shows how morally bankrupt these people are. And they think they do this on behalf of G-D.
Bless you for your actions.
You think you get more than you give. You give alot, my friend.
Tom
Humor me for a minute or two please.
This was my war, I spend my 19th birthday in Viet Nam compliments of the United States Marine Corps. This ride had special meaning to me… and what it meant for this true American Hero was heart touching. I hope you take the time to read this. It was nice to ride for something good, instead of for another funeral.
1/9/07
To: Luoann and all The Patriot Guard Riders
From: David W. Winn, Brig. Gen., USAF, Ret.
Last Friday, 29 December, 2006 at exactly 16:30, my military career began all over again in a way unlike any period in more than 33 years active duty. In 1973 I returned to America after 55 months as a prisoner of North Vietnam. Our country had changed a lot, as had I. But freedom and return to Air Force service, and finding our family and friends unchanged, was an experience that made those years seem no more than my turn in the barrel of duty.
Our welcome home was a joyous one for most of us. Bit I think I and most of my Hanoi cohorts found that the America we’d left had become far more troubled than the one we’d been separate from for so long.
Many of the cells in Hoa Lo had loudspeakers which twice each day told us how divided our country was. And today our media, colleges, and even judicial voices seem dedicated to convincing us that t the difference between right and wrong is no longer a big deal.. We’ve been divided into liberals and conservatives, red states and blue states, and generations. The old U.S. Navy’s wardroom prohibition of discussion of politics, religion or sex now seems like a joke. When thinking today of the American future, it’s all to easy to feel that our history began yesterday.
The reason I write this is simple. I’m 83 years old and had until last Friday been discouraged when thinking of the future faced by a grandson marine Lieutenant now in Iraq and another, in the Air Force, flying f-16s out of Korea. The kind of Americans they server worried me, and whether they’d feel fortunate some day to have made a contribution to our country’s greatness was of concern too.
Our daughter Elizabeth’s husband is an Air Force surgeon who once flew F-16s out of Korea and British fighters wile on exchange with the RAF. Elizabeth, Lizzy, with their three children in good hands, jumped into our van intent on assuring that Mary, I , and our two dogs reached our little house in Litchfield Park without hitting anybody.
The Halliers had introduced us to church friends made while Will had been training in F-16s at Luke. She called one of these friends, Tom Clements, to report our arrival date. Tom Clements is no ordinary bird in a cage or fish in a bowl. While at gas stops, they must have talked of more than just letting our friends know when we expected to arrive.
About five miles from our house, Lizzy pulled up to a filling station for no good reason that I could think of. She cruised over to a bunch of guys in leather jackets, hard hats and bikes with flags on ‘em. The Patriot Guard Riders were there. Lizzy and Tom had made a deal, and what a deal it was. We were to have an escort, front and rear, with flags flying.
Our street in Litchfield Park is only a hundred yards or so long. When we turned the corner we found a forest of flags. Thee were 40 plus bikes from all over Arizona waiting for us, with a banner signed by all he Riders–which I’ll prize.
Now, what do I think of that? I’ll tell you what I think. I’ve never been so proud in my life. This pride is not at all in myself or even in those years devoted to the U.S. Air Force. My pride was, and is, in the kind of people who care enough about America and it’s Servicemen to take up their flag at home.
There are many memories that make my remaining days good, but the Patriot Guard Riders have made a difference in my life because I saw once again that patriotism is alive and well in this country. I’m quite sure that God watched with joy that episode in my life.
May God bless the Patriot Guard Riders and their families. America remains good because of you folks. We’re a far better land than meets the eye and ear these days. You demonstrate it over and over again each time you ride to honor one who has served.
All:
Having a gay sister and sister-in-law, no one is more offended by disbarred lawyer “Reverend” Fred Phelps and his clan than I. The only thing more offensive than Fred and company are efforts and laws designed to deny him his constitutionally-guaranteed free speech rights.
I’ve been a member of the American Civil Liberties Union since 1993 and did not turn my back on them even when they defended the North American Man-Boy Love Association in a wrongful death lawsuit. As appalling as I find Phelps and NAMBLA, I can’t abide speech suppression through law or violence, no matter how offensive the message.
If protesting the escalation of an unjust war, as the murdered students at Kent State University, May 4, 1970, were doing is “suffering the consequences of it (freedom of speech)”, I would be honored to join their martyrdom.
The men and women of this great country who have given thier lives to defend our freedom of speech didn’t just die for popular mainstream ideas. There may be bigots and perverts in America, but by damn, they’re OUR bigots and perverts. When they have no freedom of speech, no one else does either.
Any efforts, violent or legal, to supress Phelps and his kind show a glaring ignorance and disrespect for the sacrifices made to defend freedom of speech.
Joe
Man, Joe. Where to start?
First, I am reluctantly with you on Al’s commment about violent reactions to protesters. I see absolutely no connection with Kent State and Fred Phelps. Although I feel they shouldn’t protest at funerals, and that it places for all to see the measure of their character, violent reaction to them is neither justifiable, not was it the original point to this post.
Second, when in the 70’s and much of the eighties, the ACLU was a courageous protector of rights for the oppressed. Nowadays, they have become little more than schoolyard bullies with agendas. Threatening conficatory law suits for anyone too small to fight back.
And since that is also not the point of this thread, I will leave it at that.
Tom
Tom M wrote
Man, Joe. Where to start?
First, I am reluctantly with you on Al’s commment about violent reactions to protesters. I see absolutely no connection with Kent State and Fred Phelps. Although I feel they shouldn’t protest at funerals, and that it places for all to see the measure of their character, violent reaction to them is neither justifiable, not was it the original point to this post.
Second, when in the 70’s and much of the eighties, the ACLU was a courageous protector of rights for the oppressed. Nowadays, they have become little more than schoolyard bullies with agendas. Threatening conficatory law suits for anyone too small to fight back.
And since that is also not the point of this thread, I will leave it at that.
Tom
Tom:
You see no connection between Fred Phelps and Kent State because there is none. There is however, a connection between advocating for violence against protesters as a consequence of free speech and offering the murder of innocent students as a logical and historical example of the consequence of advocacy of violence against protesters.
While you and I share the wish that the Phelps clan wouldn’t protest at the funerals of veterans, we have no constitutionally guaranteed right to not be offended. This is as it should be. I like Wag’s tactic of fighting offensive speech (4) with more speech (150). This is as it should be. I’d be willing to bet they have a pre-ride meeting where they are told “No matter how much you’d like to bust a Phelps melon, and how much they deserve it, don’t do it.” They would only lose credibility in the court of public opinion.
Considering the wide latitude of thread drift historically rampant on this board, which I like, I cannot side with the ACLU only when I like their cause or defendants. In fact, I recently went head-to-head with them regarding recently-approved Michigan State Issue 2, which constitutionally bans affirmative action in state hiring, student selection and contracting.
It is only fair that when an idiot school board tries to bring back prayer in school and the ACLU has to take them to the the woodshed that they pay for their mistakes by reimbursing the ACLU legal fees. Hopefully the taxpayers will remember this squandering of their money come re-election time. The ACLU has a huge winning percentage, not by accident, but by law. This too, is as it should be.
Joe
People have a right to free speech but not to yell fire in a theater. Woman have the right to control there own body, but not to prostitue. And people have a right to say whatever they want on here, even when its totally inappropriate and only makes them look foolish.
Yes wags, unfortunately, women have a right to murder their unborn. Thank God my mom didn’t choose that before she put me up for adoption in 1962 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Afterall, I would not be here offering discounts to FabNet members. Funny how things turn out…
Tom M wrote
Fred Phelps is an embarrassment to the Democratic Party.
Tom
Tom:
I’m afraid I don’t follow your logic.
I’m sure most Muslim Americans don’t feel any shame having shared the same religion with the 9/11 terrorists.
The KKK supported Michigan’s issue 2 to ban affirmative action, as I did, but that doesn’t mean I support the klan.
Speaking of the klan and embarrasing the Democratic party, look no further than Democratic Senator Robert Byrd. He is an embarrassment , not only for his former klan membership.
Joe
And Joe, “that idiot school board?” Because of YOUR ACLU, and YOUR liberal leanings, I CHOOSE to spend 6 grand PER YEAR…PER CHILD to keep prayer in my kids’ hearts. Why? I won’t subject them to the pig in the trough known as the American public school system and their politically correct morons. I DO think you just stated that you have no problem with the ACLU supporting NAMBLA. How DISGUSTING!
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