[Kathy St Joseph]

Deja vuh, like solid surface before it, we are getting drawn into doing engineered stone to keep from losing the occasional job to shops that do it all. Not that I regret it at all, but again I go down a road somewhat ignorant of what lays ahead.

Do any of you fine people have any advice on getting started with this product? We can sell Hanstone, using a couple of fabricators in the area and have quoted jobs, but the $1000 or so for our part seems small money for the risk of selling, transporting and installing another’s work without the means to repair or remake the occasional problem. Should we just jump in with a certification class or take the risk of installing other’s work?

If we procced with actual fabrication classes, what is the minimumal equipment to do simple galley style tops, vanities or other limited prodjects? I could see not doing undermount sinks and limiting the edgework to square edges until we got some experience. I also understand that cheap tools can make it harder to learn and won’t last as long, but I don’t want to suck a bunch of money away from improving my cabinet machinery or solid surface process at this time.

Thanks in advance to all, Al.

[Andy Graves]

Al,

I am not convinced that a solid surface fabricator has to fabricate his own quartz to make money. Home Centers make plenty of money and they don’t fabricate a thing. We do fine without touching the stuff.

I think the secret is finding a fabricator that can meet your standards. And yes it takes more time on the phone scheduling and planing. Sure you could probably make more margin if you did it yourself, but you will be pulling from what you are an expert.

My suggestion is to find someone to do the work for you while you decide. Don’t turn away countertop business because you don’t have the ability to do the work.

My 2 cents

[Stacy Boxer]

Andy, you are 100% correct in your reasoning. It will pull away from what we are good at. To be compeletly honest, being able to sell quartz and granite is more about being able to avoid selling it. Sounds Zen, doesn’t it.

Way I figure it, solid surface has everything else beat hands down, but neither I or anyone else will be able to convince many people of that if we don’t also sell the other stuff. If I sell all three, most, not all, customers will be a little more willing to listen. If I can’t convince them, at least I can learn enough to get them the best e-stone or granite top they can get for the money.

We keep warrantee cards, articles off the web or magazines, anything that explains the pro’s and con’s of all three materials. Usually showing them the warantee exclusions is enough to get them to reconsider solid surface.

Another reason that we have been reluctant to push a reselling type of job, is that we would have to deal with a local shop, a competitor for other work. We have become the place to go to for some types of difficult job, even some of the local shops get us to bid their polyester jobs on some of the harder to seam colors. That is a big bragging right, one I don’t want to give to another shop. Most of us around okc get along well, trading supplies, scrap material, and favors, trading info on trouble customers and employees from hell.

I guess I’m looking to have my cake and eat it too. I take it your experiences in subbing out the e-stone has worked out well. Perhaps we will take the jump and do just that while I learn more about the trade.

[Shane Barker]

We did the classes on quartz and some additional training in granite. This has confirmed to me that we should stick to what we are good at, but as with most of you guys I hate not being able to do it all. A few years ago I was getting real tired of customers asking if we do stone or quartz and then leaving when we said no. When a customer comes in I don’t want them to leave without writing me a check. So we started to sub out that work to another company and though I did not like loosing the control with the scheduling, it worked for a while.

I then decided to do the templates myself and have them make the tops. Well that lasted only one time because of the four hour round trip to take them the templates and then again to pick up the tops. Then a local company started to fabricate stone and quartz and even though they are also competitors in solid surface I felt it would be an advantage to us to use them for our stone and quartz fabrication, and so far so good. We can have them do it all or we can do the templates and or installs.

I have no desire to get onto the fabrication part of it at this time so I feel the best scenario for us is to;

1) Sell the jobs to the customer.

2) Template the job and send the DXF. file out to be fabricated.

3) Install the jobs I feel we can handle (or want to handle).

4) Let them install the larger jobs and most of the granite jobs.

5) We bill the customer directly and collect all payments.

Taking the training is important if for no other reason for the product knowledge. I have cutout sinks, repaired a seam, drilled faucet holes, and done a little polishing. It was nice to have the training to do these things even though I don’t plan on doing it much.

Shane

[Tom M]

al,

I’m with Andy on this. It takes awhile to find a fabricator you can rely on, but in the short run, it is worth it. The investment in space, tooling and help you will need is staggering. I have a Silestone fabricator only 45 minutes from my shop, but I instead use one almost two hours away. They take my digital file and use a waterjet for cutting. I get the cut I send, they love not having to interperate templates. Regarding Zodiaq, the fabricator I use is actually a competitor in the solid surface business. He has, however, a great shop foreman who ensures a quality job. I hate that I love them so….

One thing you will need to do is adjust how you sell those jobs to the consumer. You will not have control over the schedule like you do now. Prepare your customers for that fact. Learn about edge refinishing, simple cuts, and use of hole saws. You’ll do fine.

[John Cristina]

Same here. We acually started out templating and installing the e-stone but it was fabricated by others. After a couple of years, we started letting the other company template, fab and install. Should have done it sooner! It freed up an install crew, templating time, and a lot of wear and tear on a box truck. We ctually increased our work capacity because of them. It was like having an extra shift of employees. Locally we have a stone company that only sells through companies like me, not directly to builders or home owners, which is nice. Do great work, show up when they say they will and the customer service, if needed, is great. They are actually a company that I would let work in my own house.

John

[Matt Kraft]

We have an interesting arrangement with one of our largest competitors whereby we template and install jobs that they sell in our area, and we sell, template and install any jobs that we can sell. We do not need to have them quote the jobs. They gave us an Excel spreadsheet to figure our costs on any jobs we feel comfortable quoting. We PhotoTop and email dxfs.

They give us a 10 day lead time on finished tops and deliver once a week. Really cool shop carts that just roll off the back of their truck onto our dock sometimes with up to 250 sq ft on one cart. Damn heavy carts, though……

Initially, we had some problems with scheduling, but they changed shop management and we starting communicating once or twice weekly a status report via fax with all jobs ordered with dates, status, and expected delivery on there. We also supply them a bit of a forecast by including all pending jobs including color, sq ft, and expected template date of these jobs for inventory management. It works pretty well, as we are able to schedule a few days ahead of time with few surprises.

I would investigate a possible relationship of this nature. Later, if you decide you don’t want to buy $10,000 per week of tops from a competitor, take the plunge. Personally, I don’t want to.

[David VanderSchaaf]

We have just started into engineered stone and have found it very rewarding. I do agree with the other in finding a good fabricator and installer, however I find that templating and installing ourselves gives us some experience in what can be done with the product. We have done about a dozen right now and have found that we make more money with less time and labour expence. One area of importance in a GOOD template. The company we use to fabricate uses Phototop plus a hand drawn template of the cabinet box location including cross corner measuring to assure accuracy. OUr fabricator also make a 1/8″ mdf template of the estone top and that comes with the fabricated top. We use this template to make sure the top fits. It is easier to carry in the template and check for accurate fitting that to carry in the estone and then have to take it out again to scribe or alter the size on site. I use Integra adhesives and find that they are superior to the hand mixed epoxy. Also invest in good material handling devices.

In my opinion, the estone was a win win decision. However at this point I rely on a GOOD fabricator to make my tops. It means less employees to look after and keep busy. I believe in letting the experts do what they are good at and I will do what I am good at. I don’t like reinventing the wheel.

David

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