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Anyone see that HGTV show called “Stress Test” on HGTV sunday night? The subjected granite, marble of some kind, and laminate to impact and drop tests. Interesting that marble discolored with a humidity test, laminate of course failed and granite did well.
Impact tests, the granite disingrated while strangely enough, the marble held up, of course so did the laminate.
Drop tests did well with bottles of salsa and pickles, but a 5# concrete chunk shattered both the marble and granite, bounced off the laminate. Then they got wild with a bowling ball and wrecked all of them.
The recomended the laminate over the granite and marble, based on durability. Showed interviews with people on the street before, amazing what people thought they knew about materials.
Not that anyone would take these guys seriously, but nice to see stone get ranked where it belongs!
I think I saw the same thing a few weeks ago. Is this the same show that took a roofing torch to a mattress?
Chris
Tom,
Someone likes it. Isn’t it the most popular countertop material? I just don’t like it when the edge and top of backsplash peels off. Myabe it is just the glue used.
Andy
I fabrciated 1000’s of laminate tops in my life, and never had a delamination or a backsplash that swelled. The vast majority were self edge, wood edge or bevel edge with separate backsplashes. Much like SS if you fabricate it correctlly it will give you many many years of good service. The patterns, finishes available on laminates today do offer a truely great value for the $. And a sheet of laminate sells for almost the same per sq ft price it did 20 years ago. Truely an amazing product for the money.
Yeah, Chris, it was the roofing torch guy. Not the most reputable test, but at least they left solid surface out of it.
Thanks Wags for that information. I think it is time we have a 20 year adjustment to the price. What do you all think?
Wags,
As for laminate pricing the Formica distributor has changed here in Michigan. The new distributor has a minimum of $200 to deliver from their warehouse or ship Ups from Chicago which includes a handling fee and an over size box fee bill at 70 lbs. But that isn’t the big kicker my price went up 66 cents per sq ft, that’s over $21.00 for a 4 X 8. As many here in Michigan it is time to remove the sample board from the wall. This will be the first time in 33 years with no Formica board on my wall.
Dani
I forwarded this information ot the Formica Representative and the Manager responsible for Baer Supply account.
Matt,
I did place one phone call to the Detroit branch went into V-mail I left a message and no return call
Thanks,
Dani
Thanks Wags for that information. I think it is time we have a 20 year adjustment to the price. What do you all think?
Matt, I still remember the peeing contest the laminate distributors had in the 90’s as they leaked over into each other’s territory. They were killing themselves over half a penny. I just watched in amazement. This might stun you a bit, but I agree- they are due a price increase. Not as much as Dani experienced, for sure, but while they are at it, can we dispense with delivery fees, gas charges and the like? I know this is more Wags than you, but I can tell you I stopped dealing with Dani’s distributor years ago, after they instituted a $25.00 delivery fee. Solid surface? Pee in a bucket. but I am going to charge my customer an extra $25.00 for a sheet that I would normally charge less than $50.00 for?
I forwarded this information ot the Formica Representative and the Manager responsible for Baer Supply account.
Feel free to let him know that there are fabricators that have already jumped ship. Thank G-d I work in a crossover area.
Dani, I remember you telling me what you’re paying. Wow.
Tom
Dani,
Call me old fashioned…but $270 to deliver some laminate to you? I thought the idea behind distribution was that they took large quantities of material, and broke them down into small quantities, and delivered them to you, and the cost for that service was in the cost of the purchase. Believe it or not, we had one distributor who wanted to charge a transaction fee at one time, even if you will-called a product and paid for it, because an order had a cost associated with it. Hmmm….maybe we should be charging our customers a fee for re-tipping our diamond blades….. 🙂
My shop was in Baers area, a suburb of chicago. I have no idea what your paying for laminate but trust me when I say there is no reason to the pricing structure. The cost of the laminate is not controlled by the distributor. In fact I would bet that Baer pays more for the laminate than he charges the majority of his customers. The whole system is based on rebates, rebates that are SUPPOSED to be based on volume. But (and im sharing behind the scenes info) if a shop knows how to play the game they can get their pricing to a rediculous level. Then what happens is, a few years later the mfg looks at volume, price and takes the rebate away, hence giving a major price increase. Dani, Im sure if you speak with your rep, show them pricing from other suppliers they will do what they can to get your rebate back.
If you saw how labor intensive makint laminate is, you would expect to pay double what you are. Add to that the cost of the resins, shipping etc its a very low margin business for both the mfg and the distributor. When I sold a sheet of 4 X 8 laminate I would be lucky to gross $6 to $8. From that I have to purchase samples, hire reps, deliver the material, Wait for 60 days for my money and pay all my overhead. Its all about volume. Buy $20,000 a month from me, and you will get great pricing, buy $1000 from me and you will get good pricing, buy $100 from me and you will get where the price should be, with out rebates…
Ive heard stories about how it got to this point and I have no idea what is true or not. But if you remember back in the 70’s our Government sued Formica to make the name “Formica” a generic name. Everyone in the industry came to Formicas defense. But what I was told came out of that was Formica was found to be predatory in their pricing structure. Hence controls were put in place, and, it makes some sense. Formica, or now WilsonArt could run Pionite, Nevamar, Arborite, Laminart etc out of business by just undercutting them and starving them to death. Now, (when I handled laminate) I have to justify to the mfg why I want to put a customer on a rebate schedule. I should add they also dictate to the distributor how much they are allowed to make.. so my gross was set by the Mfg of the laminate.
I remember speaking with Paul Avadon sp? The pres of Formica a number of years ago about pricing. I asked him, why should a customer in podunk whatever have to pay more so a customer in Fla (the lowest laminate pricing typically) can buy laminate at below cost? He explained… so to speak… my eyes glazed over… and I said.. the whole industry is nuts.. which it is ! :).. .But its the way it is.
I should add some solid surface is priced in a similar manner…which makes no sense to me..
As far as shipping cost. On that 4 X 8 piece of laminate, the distributor will make his $6 to $8, the box will cost him about $8 give or take a little, the UPS charge will be on top of that. Add to that the cost of just processing an order and you see it is a loss for them no matter what they charge you. Order 50 sheets and watch your cost per sheet go down… I doubt it’s because Baer is trying to rape you, they are just trying to not lose anything.
There are no easy answers to pricing, shipping etc.. except Volume.. its the only thing that can solve a multitude of problems. So, buy more and save !
Have I totally confused everyone?
I should add one point. THIS is exactly when a rep earns his keep. It is his or hers, responsibility to explain ahead of time what is happening and why. And if a mistake has been made to rectify it. I worked very closly with the mfg reps for my customers. This goes back to Service… if a rep doesn’t give you service, why continue to pay him by purchasing his product? We all have choices, use them.
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