[Shane Barker]

Here is the scenario;

I sold a quartz job to a customer back in January. It had an undermount cast iron sink. I had subbed out the entire job to another company but I supervised the entire template and install. The sub company installed the customer supplied cast iron sink using Sink Setter brackets, the same way I would have installed it. The job came out great and everyone was happy.

Yesterday the customer emails me saying that her sink has cracks and wants to know what I can do about it. I asked her how bad the cracks were, if she could still use her sink, and if the cracks were in the middle of the sink or if they came from an edge, and if she had contacted the sink manufacturer yet. She responded saying they can still use their sink, the cracks are very slight and they are in the upper left hand corner and she can’t tell if they come from the edge or not. And she had not contacted any one but me, and said wasn’t it your company /sub company that installed the sink.

Before I had a chance to respond she sent me another message that said she contacted Kohler and they are sending her a voucher for another sink but will not cover the expense to change it out and she wants to know who has the financial/physical responsibility to take care of it because we were the ones that had installed it and she is not sure what caused the problem, could be a flaw in the sink or the way it was installed.

What do you think people? What would your next move be?

Shane

[Reuben Hoff III]

Shane,

I think the key here is customer supplied sink. I think it is Kohlers problem and obviously the did to or they would not have sent her a new sink. I find it hard to beleive that it would take 8 – 9 months for the problem to show up if it was from the installation if it was installed wrong, maybe I’m wrong but still hard to beleive. I know in my area I treat customer supplied stuff as a no warranty other than the factory, so if something goes wrong other than an obvious install problem like the sink falling out it is the homeowners problem to cover any repair labor. I also spell this out in the contract so they know ahead of time. I started this becouse that is how the plumbers up here handle it if they get faucets etc. from the box stores. Your warranty last until I walk out the door is what they say. Now I also might think about talking to my insurance agent and seeing if he knows of any funky law or something that takes liability away from the homeowner. ( my insurance agent tends to know as much as a good attorney and he doesn’t charge me for advice).

To some it up I would stand strong and say she needed to pay for it. Good luck and let us know what happens.

[dale franz]

Shane, I know you know the answer and are just double checking your own judgement.

Here is my opinion, Kohler has already claimed responsiblity for the bad sink, the one that she purchased and insisted you use. She also states that she is unsure what caused the problem, bad sink or bad install, so she can not claim that it was the installers fault. She hasn’t thought that it could be something else, settling of cabinets due to age or lack of support, water getting to a wooden shim used to level a cabinet when it was installed, or even the house foundation settling due to dry or wet weather.

Regarless, Kohler has accepted the blame, she provided the sink. One of the things I had to get through to my wife was to mark up everything enough to cover the occasionial replacement or unseen shipping damage.

Customer supplies anything, I don’t get any markup for contingencies, I have no responsibility except for installing it correctly to industry standards. If I supply something, I have to cover the replacment of the item, labor and material, but not anything else. If the paint needs touched up because an 1.5″ thick vanity is put into a trapped area and we don’t want a .25″ gap, then they are responsible for repainting. If my guys bang a wall going in the room, our cost to repaint.

Most warrantees that I have seen don’t cover incidential damage, only replacement of product.

That being said, you know your clientel, how would most of them look at this? Is it worth any bad talk? Is the customer reasonable or was she picky, if she was picky all her friends already know this and will discount her complaints.

My next move would be to go look at it if you haven’t already just to verify that the sink setters were still in place, photograph it just in case (tell them you want to show the pictures to the installer to prevent him from having to come out). Now you have proof of what was the actual damage, do nothing till they respond, let it simmer and let them think about their request. Then show them prints of some of the responses that support your decision on what to do.

What do you think caused the defect in the sink?

[Andy Graves]

Oh Shane this is great. We had the same exact problem about 6 months ago and nobody had ever heard of it. Kohler told us to jump in a lake and then I told them to stick it. They finally gave us three sinks in that we could sell. At least we got our money back to some degree.

This is what we did.

• Told the customer it was not covered
• Then told them it would cost $400 to replace.
• Then told her we would take care of it because whe is a great customer and her referrals would cover the cost.
• Relaced the sink (on our earliest convenence (sp) not hers)
• Took three hours to replace on a not so busy day.

RESULT: She thinks we are the greatest company to walk the earth. Has told everyone she sees that we are great and we get lost of work from this one customer. We chalked up the expense to a learning experience and marketing.

Let us know what you decide.

[TrustedImprovement]

Andy, did you provide the sink or did the customer? Once in a while we have a customer provide their own hardware, knobs or pulls for cabinets. Sometimes one or two of the screws will snap off in the knob due to cheap screws or more commonly, holes drilled and tapped poorly. Same deal, you provide it, you take care of warranty issues.

Our mechanic has the same policy. He replaced an expensive distributor in our van and charged a pretty hefty markup over Auto Zone prices, but when it burned up three months later, he replaced it for no charge.

How many of us would go to a nice resturaunt, pull a steak out of a bag and ask them to cook it? Oh, and some mashed potatoes would be nice. Then send it back because it wasn’t cooked right.

On the other hand, we put a few hundred bucks in most jobs for contingenicies (sp) and if it wasn’t used and the customer was a good customer, we will provide something extra. I have a few designers who can do no wrong, we cover their tail if they make a mistake and they allow us to charge what we need to be able to do that.

[Andy Graves]

We are not a huge company by any means. Our one true advantage is that we have excellent customer service. We probably eat it on some things, but our reputation gets us lots of jobs. Cuts down on advertising and marketing. Plus I can sleep better at night knowing I provided a customer what I would expect if the shoe was on the other foot.

I might not make the same money as the home centers, but we have a comfortable life.

[Tom M]

Kohler has already claimed responsiblity for the bad sink, the one that she purchased and insisted you use.
Al, this is absolutely true, but there is one thing for sure. It’s not the customer’s fault.

Make a deal with her.
Tell her that, first of all, she will be taken care of. Explain only after that, that it isn’t your fault, because the support system did not fail, and you did not supply the sink. But you need her help.
Change out the sink. It really won’t cost you much. It’s true that its Kohler’s problem, but you know they won’t pony up unless they’re embarrassed into it. Your customer, however, needs to get that sink replaced, and you’re her advocate.

You will probably stand a better chance of getting paid if you ask her to write a letter to Kohler, telling them how she felt about the matter. She’ll be happy to do this, as you told her the problem would be taken care of, even though Kohler didn’t man up to their responsibility. Bonus, she will be happy to help you out, because you helped her out.

You then call the rep, or whatever supplier you buy from, let them know what the situation is as a heads up, and “oh by the way, Kohler really dropped the ball on this”.

You still won’t get paid, but sometimes it’s nice just being a d*!k.

Tom

[c robberts]

Tom, how well I know of the bliss you speak of, that of being a **** on occasion. Between you and me, I figure if I try to do the right thing most of the time, I have kinda earned it. I just love it when a telemarketer calls my cell phone.

Gee, guys, I understand helping out a customer and the value it can provide, but how about respect? If someone provides their own cabinet pulls and they break or the finish doesn’t hold up, am I at fault? Don’t most of us buy our tools at places that can repair them, not that we don’t go online now and then, but most of us send some business to our local guys just to keep em in business and keep us on their good side. If we buy carpet from a carpet store and one of their subcontractors installs it, is he responsible for replacing it if it goes bad? No, he did his job well, once, and got paid for a completed job.

When we sell tops, we encourage the customer to pick a material and sink from the same manufacture, so in case of warrantee issues, no finger pointing goes on. We also tell them it is a very small chance of having a problem, that we used an import sink in an avonite top in our own home, but it is their decision to make. Some value safety of investment over price and pick the matching sink, others CHOOSE to save a few bucks buy picking an import, or maybe the only sink they like is an import. Others provide their own sink, we cut the hole and the plumber puts it in. In short, they choose price, availability or style over safety of single sourceing it all.

People remark when we offer finishing as an option, that they prefer to keep all the responsibility for building ,finishing, and installing all in one place. Some of the smarter ones also insist that the countertop is made by the cabinet guy, thus the reason we got into ss business.

A painter uses your choice of paint? Who repaints if the paint fails quickly?

We have a current job, the homeowner wants us to order a sink, but home depot is going to put in the e-stone top. If the sink turns out to be defective in one year, who is responsible for pulling it and replacing it? We didn’t install it, home depot didn’t buy it, the subcontractor didn’t buy it, who of all parties could have kept the issue simple and direct? The homeowner! She is doing it to save a few bucks, let her take the risk as well.

I could see helping this lady out, but get met halfway. One of the things we learned over the years was not to allow too many freebies at the start of the job. After one or two, they have been trained to ask for more and think you must have made a bundle off their job.

Kohler has already admitted responsibility for the problem, if you replace it for free, you will have put in the customer’s mind that just maybe you did indeed do something wrong, why else would you offer to fix Kohler’s problem for free? By charging something, even half what it costs to fix, you have insulated yourself from that and kept the customers respect.

Help the lady out, it will indeed pay dividends, but teach her the value of single sourcing a complex prodject.

[Shane Barker]

I really love this web site,

Al wrote: “Shane, I know you know the answer and are just double checking your own judgment.”

You caught me Al, I had not mentioned the rest of the emails I had with this customer because I wanted to know how you guys would have handled it. The one thing I have learned is that we are all very much alike, kinda spooky. I agree with all of you, and I did just about everything you all said. I started off kinda pissed because the customer started off blaming my company for cracking her sink and I reacted accordingly. After going back and forth a while I finally decided I did not want her to remember her countertop experience this way. I apologized how I reacted but followed that with the justification that it was the result of her implications that made me react that way. That made me feel like the bigger person. I then told her I would work with the general contractor (that she also contacted) in coming up with an equitable solution, but bottom line we would get the problem fixed. I have yet to go look at the sink, but I will make sure the general takes care of the plumbing and I will change out her sink, not a big deal. The thing that got me the most was how she started off by saying it was due to the installation. She was a good customer but it is amazing how fast that can change. But I am over it now, and I do expect something good to come from this.[EMO]bigsmile.gif[/EMO]

Thanks for all of your feedback.

Shane

[Author]

Posts